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TIGSource ForumsCommunityDevLogsPapers, Please [Available 8/8]
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Author Topic: Papers, Please [Available 8/8]  (Read 529713 times)
dukope
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« Reply #460 on: April 27, 2013, 07:26:06 AM »

I wanted to point out that whenever you have to ask someone to provide a missing document and they produce it, all of their information is always correct. I have tested this over 15 playthroughs and it is always true so far.
Yes, if there's anything superficially wrong with the papers (like a person with different, but known, names, or whose appearance is different from the picture in the passport, but the prints match), ultimately, there is always nothing wrong with them. Red herrings would be more fun.

An interesting thing I found very early is that the more errors an entrant has, the easier it is. The beta is currently limited to at-most one error per entrant. As you guys have noticed that makes it too predictable so I'm changing it to handle this case better. Documents revealed later may have errors in the final version.

Beta 0.5.13

GRAB IT HERE

Just a few bug fixes.
  • No new content.
  •   Show helpful error when trying to run without enough OpenGL.
  •   Fixed some issues with continuing a game in progress.
  •   Fixed "Invalid News0" citation message.
  •   Fixed crash when continuing from day 9.
  •   Fixed double-detain bug on scripted entrants.
  •   Corrected citation penalty amount text.
  •   Removed Jorji and made day 3 a much more casual-friendly experience.
  •   Just kidding. It seems the last fix worked. No more changes to day 3.

There was one major issue I wanted to fix with this build. On some people's machines, the rendering is totally screwed up and the game eventually crashes. Turns out it was related to missing OpenGL drivers. The game now prints a useful error message in this case.

Hopefully there's nothing majorly wrong with this build as I'm hoping to move off the beta and start the push for final release.

Endless Mode

An endless mode is something I've been mulling since the beginning, and it's a common request. So now I'm committing to it.



This will be a separate mode, possibly unlocked after completing story mode. The days/entrants/rules/events will be randomly generated with some basic progression. I may or may not include the night-time money management here. Will have to test it out. This mode also might include some kind of online leaderboards/rankings/integration. Depends on the effort/payoff balance.

From Here

I've got the story and mechanics for the rest of the game mostly mapped out. There's a lot of stuff I think is cool and that I'd like to show in here. But I kinda want the rest of the game to be a surprise and am thinking to avoid posting any further content here.

Not sure how I should handle this actually. Any thoughts? At the very least, I'll respond to comments here. And I'm planning to keep a private devlog of my progress. Something I can post here after the game's release.
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Stereotomy
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« Reply #461 on: April 27, 2013, 07:48:06 AM »

An interesting thing I found very early is that the more errors an entrant has, the easier it is. The beta is currently limited to at-most one error per entrant. As you guys have noticed that makes it too predictable so I'm changing it to handle this case better. Documents revealed later may have errors in the final version.

Well there's a bit of a subtlety there. I agree there's no reason to put in more than one actual error, as that would definitely make it easier. The cases where there's a problem is where there's a potential error which then gets resolved as not actually being an error (missing document, second name, etc.). In that case there needs to also potentially be another error to check for, otherwise there's the predictability problem.


I've got the story and mechanics for the rest of the game mostly mapped out. There's a lot of stuff I think is cool and that I'd like to show in here. But I kinda want the rest of the game to be a surprise and am thinking to avoid posting any further content here.

Not sure how I should handle this actually. Any thoughts? At the very least, I'll respond to comments here. And I'm planning to keep a private devlog of my progress. Something I can post here after the game's release.

Much as I hate saying it, keeping it a surprise would probably be best.
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« Reply #462 on: April 27, 2013, 01:50:31 PM »

An interesting thing I found very early is that the more errors an entrant has, the easier it is. The beta is currently limited to at-most one error per entrant. As you guys have noticed that makes it too predictable so I'm changing it to handle this case better. Documents revealed later may have errors in the final version.

It could be approached by keeping in mind that not all 'discrepancies' are not the same in visibility. Wrong picture is dead obvious, but a one-letter difference in the middle of a name, or a mistake the district that issued the ID card -- not so much.
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« Reply #463 on: April 27, 2013, 10:21:45 PM »

I've seen lots of people here and elsewhere asking you to increase the desk size -- I have to disagree. Please please please don't. I absolutely love that I have to shuffle papers around on my tiny, disorganized desk to find what I'm looking for.

Yeah, don't worry about that. I'm definitely not changing the desk (or any) size at this point. For those that want a bigger desk, play the alpha to know what a small desk is. The beta IS the big desk.
I don't think they mean the right side, I think they mean the concrete slab thing in front of the window view as it starts to get very cluttered if you have just two warnings.
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« Reply #464 on: April 28, 2013, 01:40:37 AM »

I agree that one mistake per person is far too predictable. Some of the mistakes, especially, aren't fatal, so it makes things sort of "oh, phew, that person had a mistake, I'm good." I recommend upping the limit to two or three, but making it more and more unlikely; that way, it's unpredictable, and you might still end up with only one mistake. The important thing is that the feeling of "I'm good, no worries" is gone; one of the funnest parts of the game is the anxiety about giving that passport back -- did you miss something? You have to balance it with how badly you need the cash from more immigrants.

I also recommend the same escalation as in story mode in endless. Perhaps it could be randomized, though, with a variety of scenarios, terrorist attacks, and independent scripted events put in to keep it interesting. A healthy database of those would be great.
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« Reply #465 on: April 28, 2013, 11:04:32 AM »

Hey,

I do Let's Play videos on YouTube and I was hoping to find out the video policy for Papers, Please.

Are we OK to use footage of Papers, Please to add commentary and showcase gameplay? If so, is monetization of such videos OK?

I'd love to show this game off and hopefully drive a bit of traffic to the greenlight page.
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StephenM3
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« Reply #466 on: April 28, 2013, 11:41:55 AM »

I love, love love this game so far. It's especially clever how you implemented a difficulty curve with increasingly complicated international relations. (The first game of yours that I played was Republia Times. It's neat how many ways you've tied this to that thematically.)

One (longish) comment/suggestion, after playing through the beta a few times:

I like how, becoming familiar with the game and the setting, I can stamp without having to double-check. If their paperwork is expired, I can Investigate to be sure, or I can stamp DENY to be fast. Since I didn't "ask the game" about the error, there's no small amount of tension, waiting to see if a citation pops up. The time pressure is an important part of this game, and it feels like I'm being rewarded for getting better at the job.

In a similar vein, I'd like to have access to the Detain button if I'm already confident in the decision. It'd be cool to even be able to press it when I'm wrong, resulting in a penalty (as well as a lot of lost time)! Right now, it feels odd to be "checking the rules" for a forged document, as if it's my first day on the job, even if I've memorized the seals and cities. Furthermore, this takes a significant amount of time, which is at a premium if I'm to earn enough money to feed my family. On my latest playthrough, I stopped asking "is this person worth jailing, or just turning away?" because the latter is so much faster.
It makes sense that a more extreme response is more of a hassle. (A real guard might be tempted to merely send someone away to save time, or as an act of mercy.) But it feels odd to have that delay tied to the investigation mechanic, instead of the detain action itself -- say, waiting for the guards to apprehend the traveler.

The same goes for denying people who are missing their passport. Sure, you could go through the trouble of asking them for it (using the investigation mode to ask them a question), or you could be a dick and just hand them a denial slip. I'd like that option!
I guess basically, using the Invetigation Mode as a gating mechanism seems... false, somehow. You should be able to scan people for no reason at all, or make them give you fingerprints just because you don't like them, even if it gets you in trouble with your bosses.

I realize that shuffling through papers is an important part of PP's design, and I really do like it! But I feel like shuffling through papers is for looking at the information. If I've memorized the rulebook, why do I need to consult it to confirm that a seal is fake? If it's a bureaucracy thing, it doesn't really feel like it.
Investigation Mode feels like I'm asking a question, I guess. Holding up the rulebook and saying "hey, look here, your issuing city is invalid. Anything to say?" Or, highlighting dates or fingerprints as a way to see if they match, in case you don't trust your eyes.  When I see a gun taped to someone's leg, I want to hit the "detain" button in response, not draw a line between the gun and the entry in the rulebook that says "no guns"... unless I plan to calmly ask them about it, or double-check that guns aren't allowed.

EDIT: I've edited this post half-a-billion times, trying to make it less long-winded and more persuasive. I should probably stop now.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2013, 01:05:47 PM by StephenM3 » Logged
Grenator
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« Reply #467 on: April 28, 2013, 04:27:40 PM »

On my latest playthrough, I stopped asking "is this person worth jailing, or just turning away?" because the latter is so much faster.

There should be an incentive to jail people. Some negative reinforcement, like a quota on detentions. 'If you don't make X arrests, you get a penalty'.

EDIT: I personally always detain people when I can. Because I can. Smiley I usually have no problem dealing with 10-11 applicants each day to cover my expenses, so making more money, by just turning people away and not jailing them is not really necessary (hopefully, there will be reasons to have savings in later versions).
« Last Edit: April 28, 2013, 05:50:44 PM by Grenator » Logged
StephenM3
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« Reply #468 on: April 28, 2013, 06:12:39 PM »

Am I wrong, or does the clock literally speed up to prevent you from processing enough travelers to cover your expenses on Day 1?
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« Reply #469 on: April 28, 2013, 09:40:26 PM »

First of all, I love this demo so far, I played it 3 times through in one day, the art style is great and the concept is remarkably original.

I just wanted to notify you on a few problems I found with it though, considering it is a beta still.

Firstly, on one of my playthrough's, I was just repeatedly denying everyone, and found that I was doing better this way than playing the game properly. The amount of people I went through far exceeded the penalties I received, and I ended up making over a hundred dollars a day. Even-though its no fun to do, its still game-breaking and perhaps this is somthing that needs to be worked on. Perhaps the penalties will increase the more you get?

Secondly, there doesn't seem to be any penalty for just arresting everyone with invalid papers, instead of just denials. Im thinking this is just a beta thing.

Another thing, when it came to busting the dude with his "harmless medicine" concealed on him, I had remembered who he was, and my second time, I just denied him instantly, without searching him. but the dialogue I got with him suggested that I had searched him, saying that "You were lucky to escape arrest". Is my character a psychic?  Shocked

Other than those small things, I really look forward to your games release. May it be a success! Glory to Arstotzka!  Beer!
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« Reply #470 on: April 28, 2013, 09:42:52 PM »

Am I wrong, or does the clock literally speed up to prevent you from processing enough travelers to cover your expenses on Day 1?

Crap, I think it does. I noticed too. But Im still to fast with my denials!  Evil
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gimymblert
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« Reply #471 on: April 29, 2013, 08:46:11 AM »



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« Reply #472 on: April 29, 2013, 10:55:58 AM »




I think I know which game is going to be in next greenlit set.
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« Reply #473 on: April 29, 2013, 12:03:59 PM »

Hi people! Anyone can tell me how to contact Lucas Pope by email? I'm an independant translator and I would love to translate his game to spanish for free. I found a lot of friends that would love to play and buy the game but they don't talk english so... what the hell I can translate it :D
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DrDerekDoctors
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« Reply #474 on: April 29, 2013, 12:57:14 PM »

Haha! This is wonderful! Smiley
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« Reply #475 on: April 29, 2013, 01:07:09 PM »

First of all, amazing game.
I'd like to suggest something to make the game more realistic as the security grows as the game progresses.
I feel like anyone can just make up the passport number and you can't know it. I suggest some sort of number database. Maybe a weekly or monthly default initial numbers/letters from the passport numbers, only availabe to you and that ministry of course. But you said you're focusing on the art for now, but it's just a suggestion.
Great game, looking forward to it!
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« Reply #476 on: April 29, 2013, 01:07:15 PM »

Hi people! Anyone can tell me how to contact Lucas Pope by email? I'm an independant translator and I would love to translate his game to spanish for free. I found a lot of friends that would love to play and buy the game but they don't talk english so... what the hell I can translate it :D

http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?action=profile;u=3073

send him a pm via his profile
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emacs
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« Reply #477 on: April 29, 2013, 02:06:44 PM »

Man, this is really blowing up.  Congrats dukope!
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muki
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« Reply #478 on: April 29, 2013, 05:59:46 PM »

nice to see this getting the attention it deserves!  Grin
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« Reply #479 on: April 29, 2013, 07:54:36 PM »

This is a great game, very atmospheric and immersive. I have a few suggestions to make it even more immersive:

Cosmetic/Balance changes:

  • The game atmosphere shared both Communist and Fascist elements (e.g. the eagle is a Fascist/Nazi rather than Communist symbol, while the red color is indeed Communist). I think it's great to be purposefully ambiguous, so instead of introducing the country as "communist country of Arstotzka", try for a title such as "Workers' Republic of Arstotzka". This is nice and ambigous as historically both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union considered themselves "Workers' States", and also sounds like something the country would officially title itself as, adding to the immersion.
  • For a similar reason, try to write newspaper headlines in the tone that would be expected from an actual publication in the country (heavily censored press forced to write patriotic and hyperbolic titles). For example, instead of "Jobs few, becoming fewer", try something like "Loyal Arstotzkans Suffer", followed by blaming the immigrants for taking the jobs, or "Perfidious Saboteurs Attack Grestin Checkpoint" after the terrorist attacks. And change newspaper lines like "can they keep us safe?" to e.g. "will protect the Motherland" - a communist/fascist newspaper would never be allowed to question those in power.
  • In your screenshot, the "class 8" apartment looks too nice. Make it look like the classic Eastern Europe communal apartment - dirty, occasional broken windows, empty alcohol bottles scattered around, etc.
  • Communist/Fascist states had militarized borders patrolled by soliders rather than police. Repaint the soliders from blue (traditional police color) to green/grey/brown (traditional military colors). Also consider painting the rifle pixels black/brown in traditional rifle barrel/stock colors. If anyone, the protagonist himself could be painted blue, as (unlike the guards) he is a government civil servant rather than soldier.
  • Some actions need to have their rewards rebalanced - as previous readers said, currently its much easier to turn people away as opposed to arresting them, and the reward is the same. I think you should get an increased reward for a successful arrest as compared to just accepting/denying a person.
  • Cynical as it may be, every dead family member should reduce food cost by $4 for subsequent days, since there is one mouth less to feed (including yourself), or by $5 if yourself is not included. Rent/heat are fixed costs and thus would remain unchanged.

And some changes which would involve more work, but still could improve the game IMO:

  • You should have more freedom to make choices, even wrong ones. I think "detain" button should always be available, but wrongfully detaining a peson would incur a severe penalty (e.g. double the one of wrongfully accepting/denying someone), so you'd still be motivated to interrogate someone to make sure you have grounds to detain them. But obvious cases such as smuggled guns/drugs on scans, should be grounds for detaining without first having to interrogate. Same applies for search/fingerprint - you should always have a choice of forcing traveller to submit, but abusing that would get you a citation. This would make the game more immersive by giving you freedom to make actions and face consequences, rather then feeling like being led by the game.
  • While I understand your desire to introduce guns/tranquilizers into the game, I agree with earlier feedback that this would seem out of place (an immigration officer wouldn't personally shoot offenders, but leave this to the border guards. I think it should be replaced by an alarm button which turns on lights/sirens and alerts the guards). The alarm could still require grabbing and turning the key (think of nuclear launch-like button requiring a key to unlock), keeping the urgency idea. Once alarm is sounded the intruder could either get scared and drop down (guards would then arrest him), or keep running (but alerted guards would then fire immediately, denying him change to approach and attack them). You would get a bonus for timely alarm. Conversely, using the alarm without a valid reason would get you a penalty + terminate day early, making you lose all remaining income
  • It would be interesting for one or several days to be forced night shifts. You would have moving searchlights patrol the border strip, and would have to pay attention to runners trying to get across which will be much harder to detect than during daylights.
  • Perhaps occasionally have Artstostakn Workers' Party members brandishing their Party Card insisting on special treatment such as urgent acceptance or letting them through without a passport or with smuggled stuff. Both accepting and denying could get your lowly functionary protagonist in trouble, leading to interesting moral choices.
  • If you go ahead and introduce different style passports for each state, it could be interesting to (on later levels) to see a mismatched passport style which means a forgery. Of course, your rulebook should then include reference passport styles for each state.
  • Some travellers could get a nervous breakdown and start yelling/banging on window/refusing to comply/etc, if you do something like deny then entry, force them to face a search, fingerprint, take too long, point out a discrepancy, etc. You'd then have moral choice of either detaining them immediately, or trying to negotiate with them to calm them down. Perhaps negotiation could sometimes earn you an achievement.
  • For added visual effects, consider adding changing weather. Nothing adds to the miserable atmosphere like a pouring rain under which all the waiting people have to stand
  • On later levels, you could get instructions to inspect traveller's previous passport stamps (allowing you to flip passport pages similar to how you flip rulebook pages). Game rules may order you to deny entry to those previously turned away by Arstotska, or who have previously entered a different state (e.g. "Turn away all Republians as well as any person who has a Republian entry stamp in their passport)
  • How come no travellers have any luggage? Some could have random luggage, and on later mission you'd have to search it.


« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 10:41:54 PM by gene123 » Logged
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