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[Christian Knudsen]

Kickstarter for video games only really became a big thing after the Double Fine Adventure. And that was in February of this year. Games take time to make.

But, of course, it would be foolish to believe that all games funded through kickstarter will be completed, as we've already had a few implode (Haunts: Danse Macabre probably being the most recent that got quite a deal of press when it fell through). We've also had a few completed kickstarter games. I don't think anybody's naive enough to think that a game being funded guarantees a completed game (or even one that lives up to what was promised). Was anyone arguing that?

[zalzane]

Of course not, but I find it highly disturbing that I couldn't find any numbers on the older projects and whether or not they shipped. Just because kickstarter got popular recently doesn't mean it hasnt ever had a project get funded. There's probably at least a few dozen projects that have been funded more than a year ago, I would love to see some numbers on whether or not any of those projects ever shipped.

In fact, after spending some time googling around, it seems like everyone considers a successful kickstarter project to be one that reaches its funding goal, not actually shipping its product. That's probably what peeves me the most; why is it a successful project for anyone other than the developer?

It almost makes me want to believe that there's more going on that meets the eye from the donator's point of view. Maybe donating to a project gives a sense of self-satisfaction or something, a feeling that may completely offset their monetary donation, making it so they don't even really care whether a project ships.

There's just too much murky shit going on for me to ever consider donating to a kickstarter project.

[Christian Knudsen]

Well, the purpose of kickstarter is to fund projects. So naturally people refer to a kickstarter project as "successful" in everyday speech when that funding is achieved. I think that's just semantics and pretty harmless as well as understandable.

The kickstarter website is pretty terrible for browsing through projects, though. I think you have to know the name and/or URL of the project you want to find if it's no longer in any of the sorted categories. It certainly wouldn't hurt if they showed a bit more transparency there.

EDIT:

By the way, here's an interesting article on just how much video game kickstarters exploded after the Double Fine Adventure:

http://www.kickstarter.com/blog/the-year-of-the-game

[randomshade]

Here's the only break down of those numbers I've found. It confirms your suspicions about delivery rate being very slow/consistently late. It mentions that technically only 5 projects have been totally scrapped, but also mentions that some no longer update.

The general synopsis is that the majority of them deliver late but it's too early to tell if the actual majority fail to deliver at all.

I don't really find the above data surprising, but also expect it to trend a bit more positive in the near future. More than anything though, I'm interested in how to help the system succeed in the long term (having obviously not given up on its potential yet.)

[J-Snake]

Kickstarter has been around for 3 years now, I just spent about 10 mins on google and couldn't find any statistics on how many projects are actually shipped.

In few months there will be an ouya.

[J-Snake]

I think jetpack is a good example to consider. According to the claim the funded money needs to go to the artists and such. Otherwise you will get an inferior looking game.





So the question is: Is it just begging for additional money or is he really incapable to come up with a polished looking game without financial support. I can imagine it to be true if the income isn't the greatest. However one could argue that the first priority of a responsible person should be having a solid job first place, especially if you have a family.

[Malky]

Sorry for breaking your post up like this, J-Snake, but it seemed the best way to address these two issues.

So the question is: Is it just begging for additional money or is he really incapable to come up with a polished looking game without financial support.

This, already, seems misleading.  There are more than two possible scenarios here, and suggesting otherwise puts a strange spin on the issue.

I can imagine it to be true if the income isn't the greatest. However one could argue that the first priority of a responsible person should be having a solid job first place, especially if you have a family.

What?  This point isn't very clear.  The "first priority of a responsible person"?  I feel like this is a key phrase, but the context for "responsible person" isn't self-evident here.

[J-Snake]

Well, if he claims he wants to do the game full-time it looks like he will need to quit his real job. So assuming you are his wife how would you feel about that.

[hanako]

Well, if he claims he wants to do the game full-time it looks like he will need to quit his real job. So assuming you are his wife how would you feel about that.

Happy that my spouse was able to follow his dreams and do something he really enjoyed?

Now, I don't know the particulars of the game you're talking about as I haven't been following this thread. But if you have a working game design and you need an infusion of cash to finish the art, what's the problem with that?

[Malky]

Well, if he claims he wants to do the game full-time it looks like he will need to quit his real job. So assuming you are his wife how would you feel about that.

I... what?

I don't feel comfortable making judgment calls based on the assumption that I am somebody else's wife.  Ever.  On anything.

[J-Snake]

You have to in order to understand the situation.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

the hypothetical situation is too broad, since there are a lot of factors you didn't mention

for instance, does the wife herself work? does she make enough to support both people? do the two of them have significant savings? does he have a history of finishing games or does he have a history of lazily starting a bunch of games and never finishing them? the "devil is in the details" as they say

[Malky]

J-Snake, I feel like you're not really meeting me halfway with this.  You clearly have some point in mind, but it's totally escaping me.  Without some idea of where this is going, I can't tell what you're trying to say.

[J-Snake]

the hypothetical situation is too broad

That's the situation. Personally, I doubt he needs to work on that game full-time, especially not when you claim the heavy work on the game is already done. That is a case where I can fully understand PompiPompi.

[Dragonmaw]

may i point out, once again, that kickstarter is essentially a charity and that the arguments you guys are having are really dumb.

also my only funded kickstarter, get paul eres into igf, was successful. he got into the igf. and now i have all his games free for life. eat that nerds.

[Muz]

http://www.appbackr.com/

oh god this is even better than kickstarter.

Now you can get even more people to throw money at you, under the impression that they will make a profit when your game fails on the app store. I just spent about 20 minutes on the site looking for anything along the lines of a guarantee or legal document preventing developers from running away with the money, and I found ziltch.

On top of that, their idea of a developer screening process is just that you have an apple developer licence. Sure isnt much of a bother to blow 99 dollars on one of those when you're about to make 20 grand of unmarked bills.

Haha, actually spot on, but I love the idea. I know a lot of people who want to invest in app making but don't know a thing about it, making them the perfect foolsinvestors.

If you fail, other people lose more, but you get experience and engines. If you succeed, you make a ton of money and someone else does too. Sounds like a damn good deal for the developer.

[s_l_m]

also my only funded kickstarter, get paul eres into igf, was successful. he got into the igf. and now i have all his games free for life. eat that nerds.

Say What and where was I?
I joined this forum waaaay too late

Also, about the specific case of Jetpack, it is a sequel to the guys first game, so he does have a somewhat proven track record. Not a backer of that project (I think I played the original once and didn't enjoy it) but I feel like he is a lot safer bet then some more unproven developers

[moi]

so what happens if all the people who used to make games for fun in jams start asking for $20k on kickstarter.
I'm a bit affraid that this will create a new speculatory bubble, that's what  .

Or maybe that's the miracle recipe to fix the economy?

[Fallsburg]

Actually, the bigger problem is that they lose the intrinsic motivation to make games.  It's the whole, pay professional athletes and they no longer play for the love of the game and become motivated only by the money.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

i think kickstarter is good in theory, bad in practice

in theory it makes sense: people fund games they want to see, those games get made, people buy preorders, everyone is happy

unfortunately there's a thing called being dum:

there are developers who think that all they need to finish a game is money, and that their first game can be successful and get finished in a timely manner if all they have is some cash. but that isn't the case, it takes more than money to make indie games, it takes talent and skill and experience and motivation. not everyone has what it takes to finish a game on their own, no matter how much money they pour into it. so this leads to bad developers promsing super-games, and getting tons of money, and never delivering. not through bad faith or trickery, but simply because they *tricked themselves* into thinking they could deliver, when in reality they don't know how to make games, they just think they do. this has been the case on kickstarter for like half of the games, or more

kickstarter would work great if funders would do some research before funding games, and if they didn't fund on gut instinct. in other words, a person considering funding a game should ask themselves: has this person made any games before? do they have a history of finishing games, is this game likely to be finished? if the answer to that is yes, then: play that person's other games. make sure you like them before funding more of their games. if a developer has made games before, and if those games are good, *then* consider funding their game

even so, they should expect delays or trouble. games are never finished on time, even in the best circumstances of AAA games and 100s of millions of dollars there are delays and setbacks. anything can go wrong, even with a lot of money, time, persistence, skill, and experience -- there are always random events and circumstances that can delay a game even in the best conditions. however, i feel that if every person funding a game would simply look into a developer's history and play their other games and rationally judge whether that developer is likely to finish their game, everyone would be a lot happier

unfortunately that requires more work on the part of the people funding games. there are a whole lot more people who open their wallet based on emotion than based on research or thinking things through (see: ouya)

(my personal example here: i had a kickstarter for saturated dreamers back in 2009, and still haven't finished the game. this is mostly due to most of the team ditching the project due to losing interest or personal reasons (for instance, one of the artists had a baby and she's spending time taking care of him), or just in general being unreliable. i've continued to work on the game every single day, but the game is ambitious enough that one person can't really do 7 people's work in a reasonable time span. so, for instance, i had to spend several months working on the music because the musician didn't do every arrangement he promised, and several more months working on the dialogue because the writer didn't do them, and so on. and those parts are taking me longer than it would have taken them, because those aren't my specialties, although i'm not totally inexperienced in them either. i've also had to spend time searching for new people, and getting them to help, which in some cases works but in some cases those new people are even more unreliable and again leave the project without saying anything. so the game is getting done, it's just taking a lot longer, i'd say it's close to 90% done now.)