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TIGSource ForumsFeedbackDevLogsChasm [2d action-rpg platformer]
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Author Topic: Chasm [2d action-rpg platformer]  (Read 77414 times)
Konidias
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« Reply #360 on: May 01, 2013, 10:59:13 am »

After watching the play through, I just hope there is more to do in the game... I know it is just a demo but it was boring after about 2 minutes of watching him walk into slightly different but similar rooms and killing the same stuff over and over.

There needs to be some vastly different areas and major landmark things pop up to really make the game interesting. After 10 rooms of rats and bats, there just needs to be something else, otherwise the game will get stale very fast.

Also the music loop is very short and starts to grind in my ears after a while... the whole game feels like it should be maybe 5 minutes worth of play and then it needs to move on to something else... because I can't see myself listening to that music for 5 hours while killing rats and bats in similar looking cave levels for 5 hours.
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« Reply #361 on: May 01, 2013, 08:47:07 pm »

Don't forget that this game still has another year of development to go Smiley
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Konidias
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« Reply #362 on: May 01, 2013, 10:55:30 pm »

Finally got around to playing the demo... I hate the bats... I really hate the bats.

Okay maybe not so much the bats, but the frustrating controls. I found myself jumping and slashing as the bat hovered mere inches away and I couldn't hit it... over and over this happened, and I realized it wasn't really my fault, but the weird jumping controls. I noticed the jumping the moment I started playing. There is no ease in to the arc... it's just jump and hit an invisible ceiling. There's also just not enough maneuvering control while in mid jump... leaving me flailing about in the air while a flying enemy is just right next to me going totally unharmed while I frustratingly attempt to hit it.

Overall the controls felt very stiff, and it definitely felt like I was fighting the controls more than the enemies. Every single hit I took felt cheap and felt like it wasn't my fault. I definitely can't see myself playing this if the controls remain how they are.
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« Reply #363 on: May 02, 2013, 02:34:14 am »

I think there is just an animation missing going from jumping to falling. Given the fact that this is still an early view on the project there is plenty of time to fix that (And it should be fixed really. I thought exaclty the same when I tested the GDC Demo).

I really hope this project gets funded. I baked some money, so you better make this happen!
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« Reply #364 on: May 02, 2013, 08:49:40 am »

I think there is just an animation missing going from jumping to falling. Given the fact that this is still an early view on the project there is plenty of time to fix that (And it should be fixed really. I thought exaclty the same when I tested the GDC Demo).

I really hope this project gets funded. I baked some money, so you better make this happen!

Thanks! We're trying our best :D Very close now!
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Konidias
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« Reply #365 on: May 02, 2013, 09:09:11 am »

I think there is just an animation missing going from jumping to falling. Given the fact that this is still an early view on the project there is plenty of time to fix that (And it should be fixed really. I thought exaclty the same when I tested the GDC Demo).

I really hope this project gets funded. I baked some money, so you better make this happen!

I dunno... I don't think just adding in an animation is going to improve that. It's definitely stopping suddenly out of nowhere. It's a Y axis issue, not so much an animation problem. I only point this out because since this game is a platformer, these kind of controls just aren't really acceptable... especially with so many other platformers showing how to do it right.

I died one time in the demo and quit the game. That's how frustrating it was. Every single time I was hit, it was because I couldn't properly jump or attack. I ended up dying because I was trying to jump attack a bat in mid-air while jumping over pits, but I had little to no movement control while mid-air, so I just ended up getting hit and landing right in the spikes.

I mean if the majority of the game is based around jumping and attacking... that needs to be done right. It needs to feel fluid and smooth. I need to feel like I have some control. Also I don't really think it helps that the two major enemies in the game are the most loathed enemies in platformers. (creatures that are low to the ground and move randomly and creatures that fly around in a game that is hard to jump attack in)
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baconman
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« Reply #366 on: May 03, 2013, 11:27:24 am »

Player tips:

Book of Blades (or as I call him, Bob) is your second best friend. If you're still having problems with silkworms, basic rats (not dire one), or bats, then you're not using Bob enough.

Personally, I equip my main weapon to D, and Bob to S. Makes a far more natural-feeling spread for a three-finger layout.

Use your altars wisely. You can only make one sacrifice apiece, so if you need HP, drop a potion or food. You can also drop defense gear - which I would suggest doing at least once - if you think you're taking too much damage. It's probably because you are, and this game makes you level that wisely, too.

Use your jump button! You can actually jump out of the way of bats diving at you if you can't strike them in time, and with one or two rats around you can easily jump past them. This isn't The Dishwasher or Double Dragon, nothing forces you to kill everything before you move along. Sometimes skipping a few targets is far easier than taking 4 hits trying to land one yourself.


As for feedback on the demo itself, check your G-mail DiscordGames. Smiley
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« Reply #367 on: May 03, 2013, 12:26:51 pm »

Played thru the prototype today. It's a cool prototype. The bat ai could be a bit less random.
I died once cuz I was sloppy with my healings, oh and also because I didn't visit town and buy armour (played without armour alltogether).

You are definatly going to have to increase the randomness of the environments, but I really like what you've got going.
Right now it feels like the rooms are premade, then it just randoms the order in which they come. Then you simply randomize the monsters inside (depending on dungeon depth level).
I would like even more randomness with only "important" rooms being premade, and the rest being totally random with some set rules that make them always traversable and so the graphics will be consistent.

It is VERY cool for a prototype, I approve and I will probably chip in money before the time ends @ kickstarter.

Oh and F1 enables you to see collision boxes, very useful for development team and for people who wanna know how enemies work.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2013, 02:42:33 pm by Elrinth » Logged
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« Reply #368 on: May 03, 2013, 12:28:15 pm »

Right now it feels like the rooms are premade, then it just randoms the order in which they come. Then you simply randomize the monsters inside (depending on dungeon depth level).

That is exactly how it works, yes.
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Konidias
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« Reply #369 on: May 03, 2013, 02:15:04 pm »

Player tips:

Book of Blades (or as I call him, Bob) is your second best friend. If you're still having problems with silkworms, basic rats (not dire one), or bats, then you're not using Bob enough.

Personally, I equip my main weapon to D, and Bob to S. Makes a far more natural-feeling spread for a three-finger layout.

Use your altars wisely. You can only make one sacrifice apiece, so if you need HP, drop a potion or food. You can also drop defense gear - which I would suggest doing at least once - if you think you're taking too much damage. It's probably because you are, and this game makes you level that wisely, too.

Use your jump button! You can actually jump out of the way of bats diving at you if you can't strike them in time, and with one or two rats around you can easily jump past them. This isn't The Dishwasher or Double Dragon, nothing forces you to kill everything before you move along. Sometimes skipping a few targets is far easier than taking 4 hits trying to land one yourself.


As for feedback on the demo itself, check your G-mail DiscordGames. Smiley
BoB is nice and all but it's incredibly weak and hard to accurately hit anything since stuff can move so randomly. It's great for rats at a distance but not much else. I get frustrated after the 4th jump shot attempt at bats and then just try to get past the bats, but they still randomly make their way to me and I end up taking several hits before I can land just one hit myself. The range of the swords are just really short and the movement in general is just really stiff so it only increases the problem.

Overall it just feels like the enemies are annoying and the controls are frustrating... I would go the totally opposite direction with an action platformer and have the controls be silky smooth and responsive, with larger attack areas. I wouldn't mind the randomness of the enemies so much if I felt more in control of the character.
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« Reply #370 on: May 03, 2013, 09:28:54 pm »

Bats are not random.
Bats are not random.
Bats are not random.

They will hover back and forth above you randomly, yes, and then choose a random time to swoop down, but they will always swoop down, and you can always kill them with that. As well, you can BoB them while they're still hanging on the ceiling.
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Impmaster
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« Reply #371 on: May 03, 2013, 10:59:00 pm »

Overall, it seems like there are two groups, one of which believes that the combat are bad, while the others think it's fine. It's up to the chasm devs to decide who they want to appeal to.
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« Reply #372 on: May 04, 2013, 05:52:29 am »

The combat needs to be fleshed out more, as it's only on the basics right now, but the basics are fine. The combat doesn't need to be changed just because some people have a hard time spacing, baiting, and punishing.
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« Reply #373 on: May 04, 2013, 02:26:36 pm »

We're 90% funded with one week to go! If you haven't backed yet, now is the time :D

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/discordgames/chasm

Also, we've got a Fan Art contest going on! The top 3 pieces will be featured in our Chasm Compendium as well as receive a sweet Chasm t-shirt. One lucky Grand Prize winner will receive everything from the $500 Tier! Please read rules and details here:

http://discordgames.com/?p=2835
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Konidias
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« Reply #374 on: May 04, 2013, 02:33:30 pm »

Bats are not random.
Bats are not random.
Bats are not random.

They will hover back and forth above you randomly, yes, and then choose a random time to swoop down, but they will always swoop down, and you can always kill them with that. As well, you can BoB them while they're still hanging on the ceiling.
So... they aren't random... but everything about them is random. Gotcha.

The fact that they will eventually swoop down does not change the fact that they do this totally at random, meaning you cannot predict when they will swoop. If someone makes a video where they are consistently hitting the bats on swoop every time, I will shut up. :p

The combat needs to be fleshed out more, as it's only on the basics right now, but the basics are fine. The combat doesn't need to be changed just because some people have a hard time spacing, baiting, and punishing.
I'm good at games... really good in my opinion. But this game is just frustrating. I don't understand the argument here... People are actually arguing to keep it as is? Why? What does that benefit?

Impmaster's question is a no brainer:

1. Keep things they way they are... have people who are frustrated just not buy/play your game

2. Change things to be easier to control and less frustrating... The end result being that those people complaining are happy and the people not complaining don't care, because there is no downside to making controls less difficult to use.

You might argue that it's a situation where people are complaining because the game is too difficult, but difficulty does not and should not be defined by poor controls.
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Sar
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« Reply #375 on: May 04, 2013, 03:45:32 pm »

2. Change things to be easier to control and less frustrating... The end result being that those people complaining are happy and the people not complaining don't care, because there is no downside to making controls less difficult to use.

You say this, but from the point of view of someone who doesn't see anything particularly wrong with the current controls, I have to wonder what could be changed to make them 'less difficult to use'. What are you thinking? 'Cause the only things I could think of would make the game worse.

As it goes, are you playing with the keyboard or with a joypad? I'm using a joypad myself, and I get the impression from past comments that it's the way the developers have been playing. Could it be just a keyboard issue? I just had a go with the keyboard and the controls seemed far more awful, but that could just be because I'm not used to them.
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« Reply #376 on: May 04, 2013, 03:48:47 pm »

For the record, I'm using a keyboard and I switch a couple keys around (a and d are my attacks, s is interact, q drops, w cancels menus, space accepts menus, esc pauses), and yes, I hit the bats every single time because the moment they start moving vertically, you have about 45 frames (3/4 of a second) to react. That is far more than enough, especially since you are expecting it to happen.

The controls are fine right now. I have absolutely no trouble with them.
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DiscordGames
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« Reply #377 on: May 04, 2013, 03:51:06 pm »

The controls are fine right now. I have absolutely no trouble with them.

There definitely seems to be two camps when it comes to the controls. The people like me that grew up with games like them think they're super smooth. On the other hand, some people are used to newer games and seem to think they're clunky. Maybe the keyboard controls are to blame for some of it, but I just don't think some people like how you have to think about approaching situations.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2013, 03:58:54 pm by DiscordGames » Logged
Konidias
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« Reply #378 on: May 04, 2013, 06:20:38 pm »

The controls are fine right now. I have absolutely no trouble with them.

There definitely seems to be two camps when it comes to the controls. The people like me that grew up with games like them think they're super smooth. On the other hand, some people are used to newer games and seem to think they're clunky. Maybe the keyboard controls are to blame for some of it, but I just don't think some people like how you have to think about approaching situations.
Well that's insulting. So basically if people don't like your game it's because they only play "new" games and don't like to think too hard?

Eh I'm not going to continue going on about this in your thread. I'll just leave.
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« Reply #379 on: May 04, 2013, 07:52:00 pm »

Well that's insulting. So basically if people don't like your game it's because they only play "new" games and don't like to think too hard?

Eh I'm not going to continue going on about this in your thread. I'll just leave.

It wasn't meant to be insulting, games have changed a lot over the past 20 years. I didn't mean it's too hard, I meant its a different playstyle.
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