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TIGSource ForumsCommunityTownhallForum IssuesArchived subforums (read only)CreativeLooking for a firm boot in the rear
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Bonesaw
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« on: September 30, 2008, 11:20:56 PM »

Cross-posting this because I am that important (hey man, everyone is important); don't throw a tiff if you're seeing double.

I've always been interested in "them videa games," as it were. In fact, I would say that I oft fantasize about making said videa games. Pondering on this open forum, I would like to get involved in the community, and what better way is there than requesting a whip cracker to crack whip at me?

The short - or vertically challenged, if you're that guy - of this post is that I'm looking for a mentor (or whatever you call those around here, dig?) of sorts to firmly guide me in the right direction as to how I would go about making the formerly stated videa games. Make sure it's no more than firm though, they can call rape on that otherwise.

By the way, this is a rad smiley. Gentleman Oh man, check out that top hat.

Esoteric humor goes somewhere?

(seriously though if this is in the wrong place(s), tell me before I make too big a dick of myself)
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« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2008, 11:30:19 PM »

I can't really help you in your quest, but you have a pretty sweet username.
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neon
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« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2008, 11:38:24 PM »

 :D

what a ..coincidence!
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William Broom
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« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2008, 12:56:22 AM »

1. Get Game Maker.
2. Make Pong.
3. ???
4. PROFIT!
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deadeye
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« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2008, 01:15:03 AM »

Hey hep cat why make two threads know whadda mean, badda bing?  This place isn't really big enough (or vertically gifted enough if that's your bag) for threads to get lost in the ol' shuffle-roo, a-hat-cha-cha.  Sorry if it seems like I'm "crackin' wise" but hey I'm a wild and crazy guy!

Gentleman

Anyway, yeah this is the right place to ask, and yeah chutup has the right idea.  If you're just getting into making games then a program like Game Maker can teach you the fundamentals of imposing your will on tiny blobs of pixels.  It's pretty well documented and has a crapload of tutorials and a huge user community so you shouldn't have much trouble.
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« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2008, 01:58:22 AM »

Also, more than rely on a specific mentor to help you out, why not look around for a particular, say, very simple game-maker tutorial that looks appealing, and documenting your progress on this thread? (and if you have any problems, post them here).  At least in terms of this forum, it's probably the easiest direction to go in.
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William Broom
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« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2008, 03:12:37 AM »

I dunno. My friend IM'd it to me at 2'oclock in the morning. Now I'm passing the nightmares on to you!
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Alex May
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« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2008, 03:48:49 AM »

Cross-posting this because I am that important (hey man, everyone is important); don't throw a tiff if you're seeing double.

I've always been interested in "them videa games," as it were. In fact, I would say that I oft fantasize about making said videa games. Pondering on this open forum, I would like to get involved in the community, and what better way is there than requesting a whip cracker to crack whip at me?

The short - or vertically challenged, if you're that guy - of this post is that I'm looking for a mentor (or whatever you call those around here, dig?) of sorts to firmly guide me in the right direction as to how I would go about making the formerly stated videa games. Make sure it's no more than firm though, they can call rape on that otherwise.

By the way, this is a rad smiley. Gentleman Oh man, check out that top hat.

Esoteric humor goes somewhere?

(seriously though if this is in the wrong place(s), tell me before I make too big a dick of myself)

1/ Get Game Maker, find tutorials (1 2 3 ooo), make game

1.5/ Get Multimedia Fusion, tutorials, make game

2/ (more effort) Learn C++ or C#, get a game engine (irrlicht, for example (others)), make game

3/ (considerably more effort) Learn C++ or C#, make your own game from scratch

4/ Find an existing game framework that supports scripting (Torque, some Lua-based game engine, pygame, rubygame) and learn that scripting language, make game


From the way you wrote your post it sounds like you think it's going to be pretty easy. Think again. Good luck.
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Alex May
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« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2008, 03:51:41 AM »

Oh yeah - start simple. Make something really really simple like space invaders or breakout.
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William Broom
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« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2008, 04:00:26 AM »

Yeah basically the rule of thumb for your first game is "Make Pong".
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Farbs
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« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2008, 04:13:55 AM »

Enter the next compo, and post mockup screenshots ASAP. The expectations of others are a good motivator.

Also aim low. Aim really really low.
I once made a one-button game and it took me three years to finish it.
Aim lower than that.
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Melly
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« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2008, 04:16:22 AM »

Fucking small yo. Very fucking small. Or you won't manage. Then you'll cry as your dreams are SHATTERED!

Yeah, do it small. Gentleman
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« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2008, 04:39:42 AM »

Yeah basically the rule of thumb for your first game is "Make FF7".

I once made a zero-button game and it took me ten years to finish it.

Don't piss on the toilet seat.

(srsly though: good advice on this thread)
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jeb
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« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2008, 04:45:51 AM »

In most gentlemanny manner I am going to disagree about keeping it small. If you do it small, you'll just end up running into the second project syndrome instead. What that means is, you make a small project as everybody says and think to yourself, "Yay, I did it! Now I am ready to do my MMORPG I always dreamed about!" and run into the same problem that everybody wanted you to avoid.

I think you should do it the other way. Try to remember why you are learning to make games (and it's not "Pong"), and then try to do exactly that game. You will fail, but that's the point. On the way you will have learned new stuff, and when you make your second project you will be able to adapt your plan. Maybe the second project will fail too, but that's still fine. I think the best way of getting better at something is to make many mistakes.

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Don Andy
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« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2008, 04:52:10 AM »

In most gentlemanny manner I am going to disagree about keeping it small. If you do it small, you'll just end up running into the second project syndrome instead. What that means is, you make a small project as everybody says and think to yourself, "Yay, I did it! Now I am ready to do my MMORPG I always dreamed about!" and run into the same problem that everybody wanted you to avoid.

I think you should do it the other way. Try to remember why you are learning to make games (and it's not "Pong"), and then try to do exactly that game. You will fail, but that's the point. On the way you will have learned new stuff, and when you make your second project you will be able to adapt your plan. Maybe the second project will fail too, but that's still fine. I think the best way of getting better at something is to make many mistakes.



I second that. I don't know why it's so widely adapted, but I always thought the "start as small as possible" rule is kinda meh for learning game development.
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William Broom
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« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2008, 05:04:27 AM »

Well, I guess that could work too. The first games I made were all really simple, but they were also out of a book with prepackaged sprites. The first game of my own that I made was an abject failure, but I did learn a lot from it.

In the end, just get down there and make games any way you can. If you really want to do it, no amount of failure is going to stop you.
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Bonesaw
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« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2008, 06:04:54 AM »

Thanks for all the replies and insight, brahs, but the real reason I want a mentor or something similar is that I'm a poopin'ly bad procrastinator. I've tried this all before, and end up getting sidetracked and never return. All I really want is someone to systematically yell at me, which to my understanding, is a cloyingly simple job.

Gentleman oh dang i could do that all day

So, back to the topic, my understanding of how to start out goes something like this:

Make Pong in rudimentary language (Game Maker I guess?)
Make the most terribly complex game ever in rudimentary language
?
Make Pong in C++

My question is: should I really start with a basic language instead of jumping head first into, say, a C variant? I'm not completely clueless about programming, but enough so to be considered a total beginner (I've made my Pongs in the past, but never progress past that). It seems to be the consensus, but I'm just trying to confirm it, dig?
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« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2008, 06:16:24 AM »

Man i have the same problem. My solution (we will see if it works soon enough) is to get an artist involved, get him all enthusiastic and then leech off his enthusiasm Tongue

In regard to choice of programming language, I recommend python and pygame or something like game maker. Making games is hard enough, so take any opportunity to make it simpler. Game maker is probably a good choice as there seem to be many users of it in this community.

To preempt the inevitable language debate:
Learn C/C++ if you want to program games.
Learn game maker (/alternative) if you want to make games.
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muku
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« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2008, 06:17:20 AM »

Thanks for all the replies and insight, brahs, but the real reason I want a mentor or something similar is that I'm a poopin'ly bad procrastinator. I've tried this all before, and end up getting sidetracked and never return. All I really want is someone to systematically yell at me, which to my understanding, is a cloyingly simple job.

I think the suggestion of entering a competition is a good one in this respect. You have a fixed deadline, and you have a crowd of people who show interest in what you are doing and have expectations. It works wonders. We have very friendly and open competitions regularly here on the TIGForums.

Of course, if you haven't ever done anything resembling a game, entering a compo right away would mean jumping in at the deep end. Then again, that might just be what you need.

Apart from that, I don't quite see how you imagine this mentor thing to be working, but I doubt you'll find someone here who tells you what to do every day. Try something yourself and ask questions when you have problems; that's the way to learn, if you really want to.


Quote
My question is: should I really start with a basic language instead of jumping head first into, say, a C variant? I'm not completely clueless about programming, but enough so to be considered a total beginner (I've made my Pongs in the past, but never progress past that). It seems to be the consensus, but I'm just trying to confirm it, dig?

Even though I am the coder type who likes to do everything himself, I'll say this: Game Maker is actually quite powerful. Watch

done by rinkuhero, or look at Cactus' stuff, or look at Iji. Many of the most popular indie games were done in Game Maker, so I'd say you aren't limiting yourself too badly if you start out with GM. It depends on what sort of game you want to make, of course.
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« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2008, 06:23:15 AM »

My question is: should I really start with a basic language instead of jumping head first into, say, a C variant?

If you already know a particular language, I'd say try to use that first.

Tron also has very simple game mechanic, if Pong looks too boring. Next might be something like Breakout/Arkanoid, which is still very simple but already a very nice game.

I started game making with BASIC and a very simplified Tron variant, followed by stuff in assembly, C, C++ and finally Java.

I always had big plans, like a space combat and flight simulation ... and usually failed at them. But I still learned a lot. You don't just learn from success. Failures will teach you also.

I wouldn't really oppose starting with a big idea if you have some talent in coding/graphics or musics - at least one area. You might fail, but learn  some lessons that will help in your next try. if you are an absolute beginner, small training projects might be better. Persistence is a virtue if you are a lone wolf developer. Some things become successes just because you didn't give up too early.

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