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[ink.inc]

ps: rin/lilly 4ever~~~~

[feminazi]

gams cant even do relationships n characters how are they gona have sex

[Youknowme]

gams cant even do relationships n characters how are they gona have sex

I think it's the other way around... maybe.

IMO sex is less than friendship cause it is often just instinctive. Don't do instinctive sex, kids.

[feminazi]

i meant it in that devs just jumping to sex is dum. also they literally call it "romance mechanic" that should explain everything u need to know abotu game develoeprs

[ink.inc]

Which is why we're talking about ways to make it more natural and less out of place. It might be an exercise in futility, seeing as how we are mere VIDEOGAME NERDS incapable of emulating human emotion (and good taste), but oh well might as well try.

[Panurge]

Yes, I don't think it can hurt to try. I actually think many of the factors which make sex in games so awkward could be turned to the advantage of a clever developer (man, I wish I was a clever developer...).

On another note, and I'm playing devil's advocate a little here, it's thought-provoking to see how emotive sexual content in games can be. I haven't played Katawa Shoujo yet (though I definitely will), so I can't offer any personal views on its content, but it was interesting to see it being picked up on for aspects such as the fetishisation of disability. Whilst I certainly don't condone this (I used to work, for what it's worth, in a school for the disabled), I have played games where you can kill people. Actually kill them. In their faces. Isn't that worse?

[Ego_Shiner]

there's kind of a difference between a game where you punch dudes into space and a game that is trying to be about legitimate issues and drama. and most games that try to represent violence somewhat realistically, like call of duty or whatever, are, at best, irresponsible as hell. treating war violence with the black-and-white simplicity and level of jingoism games like cod do is immature and pretty fucked up. it would be great if there were more games like spec ops the line that treated the issue with the weight it deserves, and if the arcadey fun games would steer clear of settings like that. this is kind of off topic though so whatever.

[SundownKid]

I think mature games could use more mature sexual themes rather than being all about violence. Of course, that would require more story development and less shooting things, so right now it's consigned to the world of stuff like visual novels. But maybe an RPG with more of those elements would be pretty fun rather than something targeted to teens.

There's a difference between sexual themes and outright porn, you can certainly depict it artistically without trying to evoke pleasure in the viewer and instead make it focus more on character development. Not that blowing up people's heads isn't violence porn, so why that isn't as stigmatized boggles the mind.

Right now, though, people fear putting sex in games and put violence to compensate, and that's really stupid since actual REAL (non-crazy) people probably think about sex more than violence.

I have played games where you can kill people. Actually kill them. In their faces. Isn't that worse?

In my opinion, yes. The problem is that you can't have a "cartoony" depiction of sex like you do violence.

[Panurge]

I think we're all on the same page about 'realistic' depictions of violence. And I agree that the intent of a game makes a big difference - if you're trying to make a serious statement about something then that of course invites closer scrutiny of what it is you're saying and advocating.

I think it's interesting that sex in games seems to be generally seen as something which requires a very serious approach to justify its inclusion. I happen to think sex is really fun and I don't see why it couldn't also be fun in a game. Of course this has been tried but a quick glance at the results (Leisure Suit Larry, 7 Sins, Lula - The Sexy Empire etc.) shows them to be very weighted towards the proclivities of teenage boys, with a general view of women as sub-games...

I don't think this needs to be the case but I think many games developers shy away from sexual content instinctively, fearing that they might be labelled pornographers (again, this isn't a worry that people working in most other mediums need have, unless they are making actual pornography).

[mono]

Developing a love relationship a character in AAA RPGs always seem to be the lowest priority for the writers. From what I have played sex scene often come unexpectedly with characters that you have no more than a friendship with.  Everyone should take good look at how Dragon Age dealt with this. I mean women will love you if you give them shiny things right? Also, multiple love interests in the same party? No problem were all one happy mormon family.

[Ego_Shiner]

The problem is that you can't have a "cartoony" depiction of sex like you do violence.

honestly, i would disagree with this too. the problem isnt that game designers are trying to treat sex with levity, its that they're trying to treat it somewhat maturely in a really fucking dumb way. shit like bioware games where sex is the end "reward" for every relationship, where all the time you invested in that character is summed up by some softcore porn, are really fucking gross way of portraying relationships. if one was to attempt a "cartoony" depiction of sex, you could try and go for something like panty and stocking with garterbelt, where the art style deliberately suits the degree of levity the subject matter is treated with, and makes the sex comical rather than titilating. that or you could just straight up make a porn game.

[s0]

In my opinion, yes. The problem is that you can't have a "cartoony" depiction of sex like you do violence.

what

[roc]

Now contrast reactions to this cartoony parody with those to the original scene

[flowerthief]

Just from the standpoint of character development, a game doesn't strictly need sex unless the story really requires it. Dragon Age did a good job developing characters the player could care about. That made the sex scenes all the more superfluous.

If a game has sex scenes that aren't out of place, there's a good chance that sex is central to the story. Like Catherine...which had a cartoony depiction of sex.

[koiwai]

Katawa Shoujo is a very good story. You don't usually expect that from just a game, but strangely it leaves a warm spot in your heart. Maybe, the trick was in the disability topic, actually. The characters don't try to hide their imperfections, but try to cope with them, try to do their best. There is a theme of self-development, and never giving up on your life, no matter what. If your read their forums, some players really started running in the mornings because of Emi, and I believe, some started painting because of Rin.. This is quite incredible IMO.

Sex scenes, though, are not a big part of the game, but it could be incomplete without them too.

[SundownKid]

In my opinion, yes. The problem is that you can't have a "cartoony" depiction of sex like you do violence.

what

Ok, I didn't mean "can't have" as in "it's impossible", I meant it in the way that it would be considered mature whether it was cartoony or not, whereas cartoon violence is considered E-rated. There are obviously a lot of games with cartoony sexual content, but it's still considered mature content.

[HöllenKobold]

somewhat realistically

call of duty or whatever

?????

i meant it in that devs just jumping to sex is dum. also they literally call it "romance mechanic" that should explain everything u need to know abotu game develoeprs

i remember making a topic about social gameplay and the first thing everyone lumped on was dating sims. rip.

[s0]

In my opinion, yes. The problem is that you can't have a "cartoony" depiction of sex like you do violence.

what

Ok, I didn't mean "can't have" as in "it's impossible", I meant it in the way that it would be considered mature whether it was cartoony or not, whereas cartoon violence is considered E-rated. There are obviously a lot of games with cartoony sexual content, but it's still considered mature content.

yeah i guess, but "m-rated" isn't really the same as "mature". also in our society sex is seen as "for adults" whereas violence is all ages lol. so it's understandable.

also also also leisure suit larry used to be pretty damn popular until the series took a complete nosedive with the last game.

[Ego_Shiner]

somewhat realistically

call of duty or whatever

? ? ? ? ?

my point isnt that call of duty is a realistic portrayal of warfare or anything. its that its TRYING to be (at least to some degree). it takes place in what is meant to be a real life war setting which has the fantasy stuff cut to a minimum, yet it treats that warfare with a level of cartoonish black and white morality (and lets not even touch the race issues) that is pretty fuckin gross when dealing with such heavy subject matter, and only panders to jingoistic military fetishists (who tend to be pretty gross people anyway!!)

anyway the same applies to dealing with sex. if you arent going to treat it with a level of maturity, dont involve it in a narrative thats meant to be mature.

[nikki]

Now contrast reactions to this cartoony parody with those to the original scene