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[sebaslive]

Article on a different way to get ideas for your game. http://fourshadowgames.blogspot.com/2013/01/legend-of-zelda-cave-of-ideas_24.html

Here is the tl;dr. I was trying to get ideas for a theme song of a new character and instead of looking through other songs I talked with the musician of the group and we discussed about getting to the root of the character and playing the music through his personality. Example used would be, a romantic character in love should feel light and loose with constant flutter from the heart beating. So drums would beat in the pace of a heart and violins would flow in harmony, etc. Just another way to connect with the organic side of things which I learned from my mentor.

[Evan Balster]

As a long-winded person in a state of attempted self-rehab, I will give you this critique:  You could stand to express your ideas more tersely.

The concrete statements of your article could be summarized thus:
1.  When we work to create representations of reality, the result is compelling.
2.  Representations of other representations are less potent than representations of reality.

The examples you give after those statements don't lead to any further assertions, and don't strengthen your thesis any more than those which precede it.


Further, (and unrelated to my main critique) some of your examples could be seen as undermining your thesis.  If you base your Mayor character on "what you would do in his shoes", one could argue you aren't representing life.  By your own logic, you'd do well to get in a few fistfights (rather than speculating) in order to better understand the "primal" material you're representing in your game.

[sebaslive]

Thanks Evan, I also believe that if you don't really know the best way to explain something then you don't really grasp the concept completely (which I now see that it evidently shows in this article). I am still trying to grasp the concept and hope to expand on it but I will definitely keep this in mind if I choose to write another article.

On the topic though, I don't think that representations of others are less potent since many games have proven otherwise but I would see it as an explanation as to why some games seem to have lost the "IT" factor that the earlier games had.

[Graham-]

I don't know if this is a tangent or not....

You guys are talking about copying copies, and that being bad. Hmm....

"Life" is an abstraction. If you look at your life, or a single game, and get an experience, then create something inspired by that experience, then you are creating.

The "it" factor refers to the experience a given product was originally based on. A copy of that product may copy superficial elements of it and miss the "it." But this result occurs if the copier didn't pull from his own experience: either from the original product, or his own life.

What? Games should be made from what you feel, believe in etc. That's the source: you. How you generate these feelings is up to you. Pick a flower, everything, or just a single game; if you are inspired then you're good to go.

[sebaslive]

Not necessarily, my point is very muddled like Evan pointed out but I don't believe that copies from a copy is a bad thing. Also how games should be made and how games are usually made are two different things which is what I referred to when people play a game that just doesn't feel right. I am also not saying that this is the only way to find inspiration for a game but one of the many.

A few examples I can think of...
From an experience - Zelda
Combining different genres - Puzzle Fighter
From a game mechanic - Braid
From a feeling - Journey
From a classic - Hotline Miami
or just to make more money - (I wont get into these)

What I attempted to write was an in depth way to trigger an idea from your experiences because simply saying I want to make a game about a moment is a pretty hollow idea to build from. It should be more like a stepping stone to try and get that creative mojo going from idea to execution.

*for anyone reading that would like examples of how Journey went from a feeling to a game check out the GDC Vault on The Long Journey.

[Graham-]

Nothing you said conflicts with what I said.

"about bad" includes both for/against.

That's a decent list.

[sebaslive]

Yeah, you made a good point. I was just clarifying for my sake what I was talking about

[Graham-]

yeah. that's a good thing.

[antoniodamala]

I think it doesn't matter if your inspiration is from a music/life/whatever, as long as you know the idea in a deep level. One thing is to make a game about a "badass dude" and other is to make a game about "Little Johnny who liked to do this and that". Also good ideas can come from everywhere: a moment, a misplaced thing on a table, a book cover, or anything at all.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

i think what matters is if an idea is good or bad, not where it comes from. and what's even more important is the execution of an idea rather than the idea itself, any bad idea can be made into a good game if the execution is good (as is evidenced by some of the action 52 owns games)

[clockwrk_routine]

How does the progression of the story relate to own lives unfolding?
How do the mechanics relate to our activities?
How does the character relate to us?
How does the character's relationship with the world relate to our relationship with the world?

There's a problem with drawing directly from our own lives, that severely limits our creativity, perhaps to a modern setting or for a modern society or becomes perhaps too much of an personal anecdote or one's own concrete statement.

but if we abstract some of our personal observations of life say as metaphors, we are allowed more creativity without being in the face of our audience like 'look at me, these are the things I think'.  I think of games or those that I've enjoyed as just abstractions of whatever I'm made up of, the things that I believe, my whole psychology at the time I played them.

When I played Zelda OOT, I was 10 or 11, I fucking loved elves, gnomes, animals and playing in the woods, and there was also a lot of things that I was afraid of, uncertain of, most of which were unknown, in the corners, in the bushes whatever.  I can't honestly tell you why I liked OOT after finishing it when I was that age, but I can definitely see now that these are big reasons why.

There's a possibility that if I hadn't played OOT, and I sat down to play at 23, maybe I wouldn't like it so much.  Another source of inspiration is who you want to make this game for, maybe you can think of someone specifically, like a younger brother.  Maybe I would make something like OOT.  Or maybe I would make it for a current friend.  I think if you think about who you are going to make it for and you have a specific person in mind, a lot of meaningful experiences come up that you want that person to take.

[sebaslive]

Right, I noted it as an exaggeration of life. Getting the idea behind the exploration of the real life cave and making it a hero exploring a dungeon. The essence behind it being that sense of wonder and enjoyment as you discover a new world.

To somewhat divert the thread the point though is getting to the moment where you have an idea and you need to establish your idea. How do I get from getting a game idea to making an actual game out of it? This requires a lot of planning which can be somewhat intimidating so where do I start. So when creating assets I suggest one idea is to not draw just from our own lives but from life itself (Biomimicry). A real world example used in a popular game... Creating a suit of armor and trying to think up an idea for a design. What in nature can give this sense of armor that is cool and easily identifiable? Rhinos have a nice hide that can be seen as armor. TWIST - the design for the Brute armor in halo. I think this can be applied to creating your own elves, gnomes and animals for a game, not just for the whole game idea but the subsets.

[Graham-]

I like the idea of being inspired from life.

I think you meant the question as a hypothetical, just so we could answer it, so I will, and the question is: where do I start once I have an idea? Then you talked about Rhinos as inspiration for armor designs.

I think it's important to think about what role each element of your design plays in your vision. Obviously - hopefully - the best thing to do when you have a big idea is to develop a single piece of it, up until it becomes obvious what you _should_ do.

Even better than just picking stuff that is cool and putting it in your game, ask yourself, what experience suits my game? Maybe you want "beast," and "power," and that leads you to "rhino," and thus its skin for armor. Note that the Brutes in Halo are mechanically very light. They are bullet sponges but dance around, very unlike a rhino. The resulting dissonance is destructive to the player's experience I think. Be careful that what you want and what inspires you match.

[Evan Balster]

I think an important part of executing an idea successfully is identifying its core and manifesting that as simply and faithfully as possible.

Derek Yu suggests a game design be looked at like a soup, and mechanics like ingredients.  I'm not a bad soup cook, and I've learned that design by addition can be a very bad thing.  When the soup doesn't have a good flavor and you simply keep adding new things, it won't solve the problem.  A small number of carefully-chosen spices and ingredients is ideal.  In games we have the luxury of removing what doesn't suit the brew -- the power to undo our hard work is something we should put to frequent use in spite of our sentiments for it.

If you're going to make a game, start with its heart and build outward.

[Graham-]

Your game must have a heart, or it will cry lonely tears.

[sebaslive]

Your game must have a heart, or it will cry lonely tears.

So you should consider the start, and make it very clear.

[Graham-]

Oh shit.

[mysteriosum]

Life inspires art, art inspires life...

I wouldn't be here today if I hadn't played OOT when I was a loner 10 year old. And, Zelda is a franchise about being a loner boy. Miyamoto did art inspired from his own life, and his art inspired me to do this art.

The dangerous thing is when you take the work of art itself as the inspiration. I see art as a way to communicate feelings. The correct way, then, to create art inspired by other art is not to draw inspiration from the piece, but from how you felt when you experienced it. Ideally, mix that in with some other life experiences, make it symbolic, change it, whatever.

Ben Kuchera said this in his talk about indie promotion:

"If you ever listen to, like, jazz inspired by jazz, it's terrible. I mean, Rock & Roll was great because it was inspired by old Rhythm & Blues. And now we have Rock inspired by rock, inspired by rock, and that gave us Nickelback."

I agree with this, but it's an oversimplification. I loved Scary Movie 3, because it was an hilarious parody of other movies, inspired by the other Scary Movies. Scary Movie 4 was just trying to imitate Scary movie 3, and it was like the worst thing ever.