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[Guert]

True. Well, now we know where we're heading a bit more.

We need to show in that list how varied is the indie scene but we don't want to make this a big list. We want to show what we judge as the best.

Perhaps we could make a list of all the games we liked. Then, we we have a list of about 50 games, we vote for our top 5 games within that list.  Once that is down, we will have narrowed down the top 25 (or any other number) games that people feel any indie should play.

How about that?
List moved to the first post

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

I don't think the purpose is to be totally accurate about which games are the most exemplary independent games, so the voting part seems like it'd be excessive.

I've been enjoying replaying these and writing about why I like them though, so I'll probably come up with my own list of my favorites eventually, and integrate in what I write here.

[Guert]

I think the biggest problem right now is that there are no ways of actually telling what are the best games because first, there are so much out there and in the end, we all have our personal favorites.

Perhaps my idea of listing indie games is flawed because of this: we can't simply draw a simple list due to the variety of indie games.

Still, I it's fun to replay all those games to see how they are again.

Anyway, I'm doubting, which makes me think that we are heading somewhere with this...

Later!

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

I don't think that's a big problem because I don't think it's all that possible for people to know which games are the most worth playing. You can't really predict what people will enjoy, especially if you know nothing about a person. I think custom recommendations can be more accurate; I often individually recommend games to friends based on what types of games I know they like. E.g. one of my friends didn't like Seiklus all that much so I wouldn't recommend Knytt to him.

But I wouldn't be totally against a "top 100 independent games" list either, it's be interesting to see what came out of that. It'd be fun. But I wouldn't count on it to be accurate: if some random person were to go down the list and play the top 100 indie games from this hypothetical list I doubt there'd be any correlation between how high a game is on that list and how much someone enjoys it, especially because people often like games or dislike games for arbitrary reasons, like the guy above who dislikes N because of how it looks, or me who dislikes FPS games because they make me feel dizzy.

Incidentally there's a top games list voting thing going on at indygamer right now, although it's not limited to independent games it's similar to what you propose: http://indygamer.blogspot.com/2007/07/100-best-games-ever.html

[Kon-Tiki]

As I said before, it's best to have a bit of variation, instead of a Best Of. The main reason for this's already been given. Now if we'd all come to a Top x we all agree on are the best games... would that mean anybody of our target audience'd think the same?

Anyways, another suggestion: Samorost. This one'll definitely appeal to every non-gamer, casual gamer and mainstream gamer. I once sent both Samorost games to some classmates of mine back when I was still studying. They weren't gamers at all, and all had a very different background. One was an ex-military, another was a single mom with a doctorate in genetics, another one was a karate instructor... they all loved Samorost, so that one can't be missing, as it has proven its appeal to the people we want to show these games to.

[Keops]

Games mentionned at this point:

A Blurred Line
Akuji the Demon
Ark 22
Aveyond

Blocksum...

Forgot to add The Battle for Wesnoth

Nobody mentioned this one, not even Derek (maybe he's modest XD) but it's a neat game and should be there: Eternal Daughter.

Keops out.

[Kon-Tiki]

Was thinking of mentioning Eternal Daughter, but man alive, is that one TOUGH! Even with the trainer I made for it, it's ridiculously hard :D Decided not to mention it due to that.

[Guert]

Alright I updated the list. I think I'm gonna take a few minutes to simply re-read the entire thread to see if I missed something. Just to be sure I knwo exaclty what everyone is thinking...

Later!

[Alec]

I think by 'best of', we mean 'the games that don't suck'. It doesn't necessarily mean they're the best games ever. But it seems like the list should feature the 'better' games; games that achieve a certain level of quality.

Feels like Darwinia and Mr Robot should be on there too, IMO.

[Guert]

True. Darwinia was on my first suggestion list but I forgot to write it dow. I added both games to the second list.

I also agree on your definition of "best of" and where the list should head.

[Dust]

"Lyle In The Cube Sector" deserves a mention (considering how much i played it)

Alec was saying something about how Indie games would be seen as gay or lame cos their 2d. but it depends what Indie games we would want to put up in this list. If we wanted this list to be focused on people into mainstream games, then we could just put a couple of 3d FPS's into it. But do these games show what Indie gaming is though, and who is this list aimed at?

[Alec]

Alec was saying something about how Indie games would be seen as gay or lame cos their 2d.

Uh, I was saying that that's how a coked up Halo 3 fan boy would see it. I don't see it that way.

I think we should feature whatever indie games happen to be good, regardless of whether they'll appeal to the mainstream or not.

[Guert]

Yes. In fact, I see this list as a tool for people who already decided to move on to indie games, not to try to convince players to step into indie.

This list would be to tell people looking for inde games those games that are worth looking at. Then, the player will look for new material on its own.

If someone doesn't want to go indie, well, that his/her choice. Someone who does make the leap into indie will have some help along the way.

[Derek]

If someone doesn't want to go indie, well, that his/her choice. Someone who does make the leap into indie will have some help along the way.

I agree with your (and Alec's) sentiments.  If indie games can't stand on their own merits, there's no point!

Thanks for making your list, Guert!

[Dust]

Alec was saying something about how Indie games would be seen as gay or lame cos their 2d.

Uh, I was saying that that's how a coked up Halo 3 fan boy would see it. I don't see it that way.

Sorry about that comment i didn't mean it that way. I ment it from the view of a halo 3 fan boy as you said.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Was thinking of mentioning Eternal Daughter, but man alive, is that one TOUGH! Even with the trainer I made for it, it's ridiculously hard :D Decided not to mention it due to that.

True, but Shoot the Bullet, La Mulana, and N are more difficult IMO, and they're included in Guert's list.

[ithamore]

Instead saying that I also like game x, I thought I might add a couple. Also, beginners might appreciate if Guert would include links to each of the games (to their pages and not to direct downloads).

The best Flash game I've ever played was Jenova Chen's flOw. The atmosphere is wonderful (both in terms of the minimalistic graphics and the ambient music), the controls are simple, and the gameplay is very well balanced. Also, the levels.xml file in the downloadable version can be modified to change some aspects of the game as discussed here.

As for an FPS-esque game, I would suggest Ovine's remake of Cholo. Again, it has a nice atmosphere: a Tron-like city populated only by robots with futuristic, sometimes dark ambient music. The controls are very FPS oriented, and some of the robots you can hack into can use lasers. The lasers, however, function more as a tool to stun robots than a weapon: it is possible to destroy robots after they've been stunned, but you'll have to go back to your last save if you accidentally blowup a droid you've supposed to use to complete the game. With that said, it's more of a slow paced FP action adventure game that focuses on exploring and puzzle solving, but that's what I like about it. It could also provide therapeutic play for anyone who's recently overdosed on fragging and pwning. But as a remake, like all remakes, it's not as purely indie as what others have suggested, even though it is is free and both the original and remake were never designed to be a mainstream game.

[Guert]

Ok, I update the list and. Please tell me if there's anything that you think should change in any way.

Should we include the game Façade?

Later!

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

If you're going to include that, include Masq too.

[Kon-Tiki]

Masq never wants to work properly here I registered (took me about four days until it stopped timing out), but even when logged in, on the downloaded version as well as on the online version, it won't let me go past chapter 3. It says I got to register, while I am, and'm logged in Masq'd be far better if it didn't need the player to be online and registered.