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TIGSource ForumsPlayerGamesLet's Dissect Some MOBAs (LOL, DOTA2, SMITE, etc)
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ink.inc
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« Reply #40 on: March 04, 2013, 09:35:39 PM »

i own something like 85 champions in league of legends and have never spent a cent. i've never had trouble gaining IP and at this point i don't even really give a shit about the currency.

but then again i used to play quite a bit and with a pretty high win rate so i'm probably not the average user

overall though i have a much better time in dota 2 than league of legends. it seems that i have very few legitimately evenly-matched games in league (maybe 1 in 5). either we stomp them into the ground, or our team has in excess of one retard and we get stomped into the ground. this is much less prevalent in dota 2 in my experience.
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« Reply #41 on: March 04, 2013, 10:17:21 PM »

why does all of this have to do with the people you're playing against being garbage? mid lane is super safe and flash exists, and if mid dies and the enemy mid mysteriously disappears and you SOMEHOW DONT HAVE (limitless) WARDS why would the other lanes not play safe?

i didnt play lol that much compared to most people here but you dont need to tell me there arent couriers in it ahahaha i played it a long time ago

It's true that flash is pretty much required and that Riot built themselves into a corner with the spell, but everyone having flash doesn't make the game any less aggressive.  You may have flash but so does the other mid and so does the enemy jungler and they won't hesitate to use them on you.  Not to mention that flash is on a colossal 5 minute cooldown time which is 10 times longer than the average death timer.

Even if the enemy top/bot has wards (which they often don't, even at a decent level of play), there are plenty of ways to get kills off of them.

You can find blind spots in their ward coverage, or wait until their committed to a fight or too overextended to react in time.  If you coordinate with your jungler you can even just surround them at their turret and then bum rush them.

Having all the champions in Dota 2 is an extremely cool thing for valve to do but everyone's kind of exaggerating how bad LoL's system is.

LoL has plenty of flaws but no one has really touched on any of the larger ones.  Besides John no one really knows anything about LoL that isn't skin deep which makes this discussion kind of meh.
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« Reply #42 on: March 04, 2013, 10:25:52 PM »

i own something like 85 champions in league of legends and have never spent a cent. i've never had trouble gaining IP and at this point i don't even really give a shit about the currency.

You have been playing how long? And still don't have access to every champion. I find that pretty unacceptable.

Quote
LoL has plenty of flaws but no one has really touched on any of the larger ones.  Besides John no one really knows anything about LoL that isn't skin deep which makes this discussion kind of meh.

dumbass statement, I played that game for a year and had well over 1000 wins.
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« Reply #43 on: March 04, 2013, 10:26:45 PM »

3 years, but i've got 15k ip in the bank and the remaining champions are either shit or uninteresting to me so i save it for a rainy day

the only reason i keep playing is because my high school friends still play and also akali

Quote
Holy shit, I was big into jungling, and when LoL made their jungle babytown frollics for season two I really saw a decline into how much I played.

i like the new jungle tbh; it really opens it up for unorthodox heroes like jungle akali etc.
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deathtotheweird
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« Reply #44 on: March 04, 2013, 10:29:48 PM »

That's irrelevant, the fact is you've played for a long ass time and even if you wanted to you wouldn't have access to every hero in the game.
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ink.inc
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« Reply #45 on: March 04, 2013, 10:31:30 PM »

just the viable ones
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deathtotheweird
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« Reply #46 on: March 04, 2013, 10:33:18 PM »

in pubs there's no such thing as "unviable"
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ink.inc
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« Reply #47 on: March 04, 2013, 10:34:45 PM »



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Blademasterbobo
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« Reply #48 on: March 04, 2013, 10:42:43 PM »

watch out, allen's gettin mad over these video games
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« Reply #49 on: March 05, 2013, 12:33:04 AM »

It's true that flash is pretty much required and that Riot built themselves into a corner with the spell, but everyone having flash doesn't make the game any less aggressive.  You may have flash but so does the other mid and so does the enemy jungler and they won't hesitate to use them on you.  Not to mention that flash is on a colossal 5 minute cooldown time which is 10 times longer than the average death timer.

Even if the enemy top/bot has wards (which they often don't, even at a decent level of play), there are plenty of ways to get kills off of them.

You can find blind spots in their ward coverage, or wait until their committed to a fight or too overextended to react in time.  If you coordinate with your jungler you can even just surround them at their turret and then bum rush them.

Having all the champions in Dota 2 is an extremely cool thing for valve to do but everyone's kind of exaggerating how bad LoL's system is.

LoL has plenty of flaws but no one has really touched on any of the larger ones.  Besides John no one really knows anything about LoL that isn't skin deep which makes this discussion kind of meh.

do you gank the same person every minute? 5 min cooldown on flash is still relatively safe, and its much easier to use defensively because of mommy towers. not sure what it has to do with death timer, if you used it you are probably alive

how long do you spend looking for blind spots in their wards, fuck how do you even do that do you rush buy a stealth detect and just wander around dewarding during laning im sure that wont set you back in gold at all
if you are wrong you either get counter ganked or waste a lot of time farming
and if the enemy bot doesn't have wards you're not playing at "decent" you're playing at "garbage"

you need a lot of armor+hp to dive in league the turrets are crazy but that is sometimes possible if the enemy is low yeah

kind of exaggerating? I have played like 1000 games of LoL and maybe only played 1/3 of the chars and thats with mediocre runes

i like that you judge my experience from basically nothing too, i played back when there were 40 characters and i played a lot from then on until i guess blue centaur char? when i started playing dota2 yeah (i play it less i guess)
john will tell you of my many exploits and hilarious antics
or are you talking about yourself

you can gank in league but it just depends a lot more on the opponent fucking up and it takes so long to go places that you can end up wasting a lot of time

accept that you dont know what youre talking about and move on
« Last Edit: March 05, 2013, 12:39:24 AM by The Monster King » Logged
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« Reply #50 on: March 05, 2013, 12:33:58 AM »

Yeah ghost, no one besides john knows what theyre talking about;

http://quickfind.kassad.in/profile/euw/Funkt/

What.

ok.

320,000 IP, still didn't own every champion. I'll agree that owning every champion doesn't really mean jackshit in LoL and I dont agree with it being P2W at all due to the fact that you could exclusively play one champion and get to Diamond ELO if you took the time. Basically, limiting picks doesn't hinder performance but it IS a system designed to squeeze money out of new players who don't have the time to play more than 2 games an evening.


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« Reply #51 on: March 05, 2013, 01:34:48 AM »

That says more about how they've been forced to design their game around the champion limits than anything else. League champs are very samey, and they've reworked champions plenty of times because one champ countered another too hard because of some unique aspect (e.g. Corki revealing stealth with his bombs). Dota doesn't work like that. Anti-Mage counters Skeleton King, and that's fine because that means there's more strategy involved in the picking phase.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2013, 01:40:38 AM by Nillo » Logged

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« Reply #52 on: March 05, 2013, 01:48:47 AM »

Yeah ghost, no one besides john knows what theyre talking about;

http://quickfind.kassad.in/profile/euw/Funkt/

What.

ok.

320,000 IP, still didn't own every champion. I'll agree that owning every champion doesn't really mean jackshit in LoL and I dont agree with it being P2W at all due to the fact that you could exclusively play one champion and get to Diamond ELO if you took the time. Basically, limiting picks doesn't hinder performance but it IS a system designed to squeeze money out of new players who don't have the time to play more than 2 games an evening.




This X1000.  Couldn't have been better said.
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« Reply #53 on: March 05, 2013, 01:56:38 AM »

it also means sk has to adapt, bkb will help a lot against am since manaburn doesnt go through


agree w Nillo, whats the point of having 105 characters if it doesnt matter which you take
theres 5 types of char and thats it gr9 game
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« Reply #54 on: March 05, 2013, 02:47:11 AM »

Let me explain this very simply

I have played a lot of League of Legends, and back when it was the only real free choice (dota 2 wasn't around yet, and then later when passes were rare) it was nice that you could get a friend to download and play it with you with no investment. But why would you ever, ever tell them to play LoL over Dota 2? In a year, or maybe two, they'll have enough runes to be effective at the champions they liked enough to buy. God forbid they buy a champion and then don't like him, or the champ gets nerfed to oblivion (i.e. I used to play Swain all the time until Riot destroyed him entirely and utterly right out from under me) -- then they're out all that IP for the champ and maybe even runes if the rune build is no longer relevant for that champ (i.e. when they redesign champions, though that's still rare). In Dota 2, if you play a character and then he becomes less fun to you or less viable because of game changes or even just something you like about the character is removed it's no loss on investment. Again, speaking from experience both in years of experience, both in playing with friends and introducing them to the genre

Any -- I repeat, ANY -- discussion of mechanics needs to take into account the fact that you're all being manipulated by fatcats in suits in order to feed people into the millstone of f2p cash shops

"I have played three years and have all the champions I want"

jesus. maybe you people should realize some people exist who haven't done that and maybe should be allowed to enjoy themselves also
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« Reply #55 on: March 05, 2013, 08:44:58 AM »

Been playing DotA for at LEAST 7 years now. DotA 1 was a really great game because of how a system was created within the Warcraft III's limitations which always awed me about its design.

When HoN came out I was ecstatic as a newer stand-alone version of DotA would come out. I loved it. Played it for years and been part of the beta since the beginning. Then they started stringing away from DotA (adding new heroes and items)..

HoN was complimenting players who could play Carry roles while making the players who played supports feel like shit. It was never rewarding for me when I played support because HoN is TOO MUCH Carry-biased.

Getting turned off by HoN, I tried my hand at LoL. It was a very easy game with my level of experience from playing both DotA and HoN and I think my first few games all were 10-0 or something. Of course they were against noobs. I got disappointed that the basic core mechanics of DotA weren't in the game (STR, AGI, INT), frustrating movement speed, a TINY map, outline graphics and just a bad UI. A great part of my game even, which is last hitting and denying, have gone to waste because denies didn't exist. It was fairly easy to farm because you didn't lose gold when you died and it's a very quick to end game.

When DotA 2 came out, of course the lack of features made it hard to compete with HoN. But then I disapproved of HoN's unoriginality (taking basically everything from DotA) and have finally returned to DotA. Of course there will be features from HoN that I'll miss but DotA 2's the game for me now.

I loved HoN's stat tracking and I think MOBA games now should change the maps or at least make new ones. They should create a HORIZONTAL and SYMMETRICAL map just for other players to feel that their not on a disadvantaged side. I remember newer players being disappointed being on the Scourge side because they weren't used to going down and left (opposite of reading a book if you're not Japanese)
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« Reply #56 on: March 05, 2013, 01:44:17 PM »

Any -- I repeat, ANY -- discussion of mechanics needs to take into account the fact that you're all being manipulated by fatcats in suits in order to feed people into the millstone of f2p cash shops

Could we please not though?  It's already been said to death in this thread and doesn't lead to any meaningful discussion.

Why is everyone getting so angry in this thread?
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« Reply #57 on: March 05, 2013, 03:19:47 PM »

nothing induces more nerd rage than a moba

nobody is exempt, not even me
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« Reply #58 on: March 05, 2013, 03:25:42 PM »

Why is everyone getting so angry in this thread?
Yeah, this is exactly the reason why I wanted to have this talk in its own topic instead of in the Dota 2 thread. It inevitably turns into a war between the people who prefer one thing and those who prefer another thing.
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« Reply #59 on: March 05, 2013, 05:01:17 PM »

No they don't.

Let's Dissect Some MOBAs

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