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[Alec S.]

Errant Signals did a pretty good video on Duke Nukem Forever that dealt with the sexism in DNF and whether the irony defense really holds up: 

[AshfordPride]

what if she does understand irony and just doesn't find it funny? 

I can hardly see how a human being with a pulse isn't reduced to tears by the jovial japery of any given beer commercial or hamburger ad.  These are ads aimed at the bluest of bloods, those who breath culture and exhale wisdom.  I find it legitimately disturbing that someone could look at any of the ads presented and not find themselves wiping a tear from their eye as they partake in the absurdity of a world lovingly crafted by only the most capable and witty ad men.  

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMM, THAT'S GOOD IRONY


The point isn't if these ads are funny or not.  It's that she can't see sexism, however it might be presented, as something other than reprehensible.  And that's absurd.  There's no human action that you can't lampoon, no social injustice that you can't put a spin on to make funny, and no glimpse in the heart of darkness that someone can't find a kernel of humor in.  Of course her cherry picked examples are not worth defending, but I'm not giving an inch on the grounds that every single moment of Double Dragon Neon wasn't absolutely hilarious.

[feminazi]

what if she does understand irony and just doesn't find it funny? 

The point isn't if these ads are funny or not.  It's that she can't see sexism, however it might be presented, as something other than reprehensible.  And that's absurd.  There's no human action that you can't lampoon, no social injustice that you can't put a spin on to make funny, and no glimpse in the heart of darkness that someone can't find a kernel of humor in.  Of course her cherry picked examples are not worth defending, but I'm not giving an inch on the grounds that every single moment of Double Dragon Neon wasn't absolutely hilarious.

but if someone told a sexist joke and it wasn't funny to them(subjective, but the only merit of a sexist joke), what else would you think of it? is the comedian absolved of responsibility? i guess many white males(pardon your offense, jokes) would say that offense is taken not given. i mean, i know you're childish as hell but still.

[feminazi]

also i find those ads repetitive. it's not exactly funny to hear the joke told over and over.

[AshfordPride]

but if someone told a sexist joke and it wasn't funny to them(subjective, but the only merit of a sexist joke), what else would you think of it? is the comedian absolved of responsibility? i guess many white males(pardon your offense, jokes) would say that offense is taken not given. i mean, i know you're childish as hell but still.

Sexism is easy, comedy is hard.

also i find those ads repetitive. it's not exactly funny to hear the joke told over and over.

They're beer commercials.  

They're designed to appeal to people under the lowest common denominator.  Nobody is defending these ads, eva.  I pick my battles.  I'm defending legitimate uses of sexism for the sake of ironic humor.  I'm saying that Anita's attitude towards something like a dumb commercial is carelessly transferred over to something like a work of art without any consideration that a bit of conversion in the way she thinks might need to take place.  You cannot judge a fifteen second advert the same way you would a video game.

[ThemsAllTook]

They're beer commercials.

They're designed to appeal to people under the lowest common denominator.

Do they need to be? Plenty of intelligent people drink beer. Maybe part of the problem here is the attempt to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

[ink.inc]

Do they need to be?

yes

[mono]

Do they need to be?

yes

[AshfordPride]

Do they need to be? Plenty of intelligent people drink beer. Maybe part of the problem here is the attempt to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

Advertisements are given a handful of fleeting seconds to get the attention of as many people they possibly can.  Advertisers don't say that there are many smart people who drink beer, what they're concerned with is that much, much more ignorant people are going to guzzle down your sugary alcohol swill or your beer flavored water.  Beer commercials are primarily about tricking the viewer into thinking that drinking their beer is going to lead to them having a similar experience as the people shown.  Show me a beer commercial that doesn't involve A) A man sneaking away to have fun with his friends, )B A man getting a hot girl, or C) the product being served in a situation that is probably LEAGUES higher in class than the situations it's be typically drank in.  

It's because, as horrible as it might be, as pessimistic and defeatist it might be to say, it works.

And oh, boo hoo!  Boo hoo hoo comes the cries of those who would rally from the comfort of their La-Z-Boy and wish ill of those evil ad men who are too BLIND to see the potential that their medium could have by alienating what I'm sure is WELL more than 50% of their total base.  You people just insist on going down into the lowest of the lowest, the kitschiest corners of human expression, and demand change.  Good luck.  I'll be up here, looking down on that stagnant mess as I enjoy the finer things in life.

Like ironic 80's culture jokes.  

Mmmyes.  

[s0]

You people just insist on going down into the lowest of the lowest, the kitschiest corners of human expression, and demand change.

the kitschiest corners of human expression tend to be the biggest though and also the ones that are most reflective of the values of mainstream society.

[Alec S.]

 Show me a beer commercial that doesn't involve A) A man sneaking away to have fun with his friends, )B A man getting a hot girl, or C) the product being served in a situation that is probably LEAGUES higher in class than the situations it's be typically drank in.  

[ThemsAllTook]

You people just insist on going down into the lowest of the lowest, the kitschiest corners of human expression, and demand change.  Good luck.  I'll be up here, looking down on that stagnant mess as I enjoy the finer things in life.

You clearly regard these things with disdain, but you're also actively arguing against improving them. I don't really get it. You want bad things to stay bad?

[feminazi]

maybe he's just being ironic.

[gimymblert]

Show me a beer commercial that doesn't involve A) A man sneaking away to have fun with his friends, )B A man getting a hot girl, or C) the product being served in a situation that is probably LEAGUES higher in class than the situations it's be typically drank in.  

26 435 views

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=MX145Tu4MHY&NR=1

15 663 206 views

edit:
The second most viewed is better





13 113 375 views

edit2:
It's not an ad but this is the second most viewed video about beer (the second ad being the 3rd)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=rw2b8ENc_Ak

14 743 285 views

[AshfordPride]

the kitschiest corners of human expression tend to be the biggest though and also the ones that are most reflective of the values of mainstream society.

Are we talking about art or beer commercials here?  I don't know how to respond.

Thank you Alec S, my quest is finally over.  I CAN FINALLY REST NOW THAT MY HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION HAS BEEN ANSWERED.

Did you know that Blue Moon is brewed by the same people who make Miller and Coors?  Now, why oh why, if they have figured out the secret to making a good beer commercial do they still insist on making commercials where, oh, say, a monkey uses a woman's cleavage to open a beer while a crowd of handpicked cool looking eighteen to twenty-fours cheer?  

There are a lot of parts to consider when answering this.  And doing so might take a long time and detract from the entire original point that this thread was about.  But I'm sure nobody minds...

The ad seeks to establish an identity for Blue Moon.  It's a beer that's being made by someone.  One person is making your beer with care and consideration to every ingredient.  It's trying very hard to make this beer seem personal, when it is in fact probably brewed in the same factory as Coors Light.  It goes back to the third category of trying to associate something with a product that has no natural association to it.  Realistically, if we stop to consider it, this beer is not being brewed one batch at a time by one artisan who has dedicated his life and being to making this beer just for you.  But that is exactly the lie that advertising would love for you to believe!

And it is a lie!  It's no more honest than the belief that having Bud Light or Keystone at your party will make hot women like you, or that you're going to have fun adventure if you drink our product.  This commercial was made by the same suits with nearly the same intention, they want to propose a hypothetical experience that they want you to think you'll have if you drink this product.

Another thing is that this beer is more so being sold on the merit of taste.  While it does want to insist how personal it is, this commercial is trying it's damnedest to communicate a hyperbolized visual metaphor for what drinking their product is like.  It's fucking delicious, you ignorant middle class subhuman, and if we can get you to order this the next time your purchase a nine dollar cheeseburger than MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.  

Blue Moon is not aimed at the lowest common denominator.  It costs more to make and isn't the sort of beer that the average person would be drinking in mass amounts.  It's not a beer that's about partying and good times, it's a beer that's honestly almost seems a little fucking solemn.  Like, holy shit, I drink this shit at Applebees, calm the fuck down guys.  Advertising doesget to be exclusionary when you factor in luxury.  All of a sudden you can ignore the people who will NEVER be your customers because there's a very cleanly cut line you've set up with quality and price.  

This does not exist in Mike's Hard Lemonade.  Mike's Hard Lemonade is the drink where class goes to die.

And also, thank you GT for doing my legwork.  The check's in the mail.

You clearly regard these things with disdain, but you're also actively arguing against improving them. I don't really get it. You want bad things to stay bad?

I'm okay with trivial garbage being trivial garbage.

[CowBoyDan]

also i find those ads repetitive. it's not exactly funny to hear the joke told over and over.

I find feminist repetitive, wah wah, not fair, wah wah not funny, must change system.  My boss is the head of software engineering, she is a brilliant manager that started as a programmer, her boss is the COO of the company (and also female).  The best software managers I have had in my career were female.  Most of the women I am around are very successful and don't make excuses for any lack of success.  Winners win, losers find excuses and blame others, this concept is not related to gender or race but often is made to seem that way.

[ThemsAllTook]

You clearly regard these things with disdain, but you're also actively arguing against improving them. I don't really get it. You want bad things to stay bad?

I'm okay with trivial garbage being trivial garbage.

That seems perfectly fair, but from what I've read of your posts, it looks like it goes quite a lot beyond that. It seems like you're not OK with attempts to turn trivial garbage into something better. That's the part I don't get... How is it worth your time to post in threads like this to argue against positive change? What's the motivation? I don't seek to antagonize, I just honestly want to understand where you're coming from.

[Alec S.]

Hey, I'm not saying most beer commercials aren't targeted at the lowest common denominator, or that they don't mostly throw T&A in the viewers face, I'm just providing a counter-example which shows that they don't have to be.  (And it technically desn't fall under category C, as it never shows the beer being served at all.  I will grant that it falls under the spirit of C).  But, yeah, I mostly posted that a a jokey response to your hypothetical question/sweeping generalization.

[s0]

the kitschiest corners of human expression tend to be the biggest though and also the ones that are most reflective of the values of mainstream society.

Are we talking about art or beer commercials here?  I don't know how to respond.

we're talking about popular culture

[feminazi]

also i find those ads repetitive. it's not exactly funny to hear the joke told over and over.

I find feminist repetitive, wah wah, not fair, wah wah not funny, must change system.  My boss is the head of software engineering, she is a brilliant manager that started as a programmer, her boss is the COO of the company (and also female).  The best software managers I have had in my career were female.  Most of the women I am around are very successful and don't make excuses for any lack of success.  Winners win, losers find excuses and blame others, this concept is not related to gender or race but often is made to seem that way.

i find you repetitive, unintelligible, and whiny. you're projecting your insecurities on to a video of critique to believe that she's forcing game developers to change things. snap out of it. you see what you're doing there? them feminists blaming me! it sounds like you're playing victim, loser.

also, cowboydan, maybe you should ask your female boss and software managers what they actually think about feminism instead of making assumptions out of thin air.