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[oahda]

not a game art trick but fun and semi-relevant:
https://twitter.com/MaxOfS2D/status/902635062419746816
link's cel-shading disappears in this particular place in botw

[JobLeonard]

Looks like the cell-shading is done through the lighting system? Is that the normal way to do it?

[oahda]

Like someone else was saying in the comments, I think it's something like that there's a simpler version of the model of that gate that's rendered to something like a stencil buffer to determine where to apply the cel-shading and the hole in the wall isn't included in that simpler model, so when Link goes in there, he ends up behind the geometry that deactivates the effect and doesn't get cel-shaded.

[JobLeonard]

... and that simpler model would not have lighting applied to it, I guess

[oahda]

Nah, it's not rendered at all to the screen, only to the stencil buffer. Sorry, I didn't really reply to the question about lighting at all. I mean, it depends on what you mean by the lighting system. Both lighting and cel-shading would be calculated in a shader, and most probably they're done at the same time so that the cel-shader can use the lighting information to do its thing, if that's what you mean.

[JobLeonard]

What I mean is that in the video below you can see it glitch on/off depending on the camera position. With cell shading, you see highlights caused by the sun. Without, it's just that soft self-shadow effect that I forgot the technical term for.

[oahda]

Ooh, that's interesting. Maybe the shader used for non-celshaded stuff simply doesn't have code in it to handle that sort of stuff (like emission) since the models using it are not expected to have any such effects applied, so that they can get away with a cheaper shader to keep the game running nicely?

(soft self-shadow = ambient occlusion?)

[JobLeonard]

It could also be that it's the cell-shader that is wrong. Link is supposed to be in a shadowy area, but somehow is lit by the sun when cell-shaded.

(soft self-shadow = ambient occlusion?)

Thank you, yes!

[oahda]

Yeah, I dunno for sure of course. Just guessing.

Is it spelled like that? Everyone everywhere ever has been misleading me!

[e.jolene]

probably relevant to the breath of the wild thing i noticed was while playing wind waker hd for the wii u: when link's near any direct light source (a fire) the shader falls back to a vertex light solution
this probably happens in the original too but was less noticeable due to the low resolution

[oahda]

Huh. Any footage of that?

[e.jolene]

looked at a random let's play to make sure i'm not making this up. maybe "switching" isn't right, but some pervertex lighting gets added
https://youtu.be/ZKv0HuCEcOM?t=3m43s

[oahda]

I see what you mean. Maybe it has to do with falloff.

[gimymblert]

What I mean is that in the video below you can see it glitch on/off depending on the camera position. With cell shading, you see highlights caused by the sun. Without, it's just that soft self-shadow effect that I forgot the technical term for.

I think you mentionned the lambert term also called ndotl (ie Light verctor dot normal vector) which is the simplest and oldest form of light (who remember gouraud shading?).

It looks like they might post process the cel shading here, ie render a light pass in deferred then ramp the result of light buffer on the whole screen? They might modulate the effect per material with a stencil. I'll have to play the whole game again lol

That wind waker seems like just a falloff without any lambert (ie just distance) also might not be vertex (doesn't have the gouraud artfact that follow triangle edges) it's just a flat surface with no normal map.

[JobLeonard]

I'm going to leave the reverse-engineering to you peeps, I never got into 3D stuff

[gimymblert]

http://simonstechblog.blogspot.com/2015/02/pre-integrated-skin-shading.html
Pre-Integrated Skin Shading

http://grephicsnerd.blogspot.com/2017/06/skin-shading-model.html
My little journey to next gen skin shading.

http://c0de517e.blogspot.com/2011/09/mathematica-and-skin-rendering.html
Mathematica and Skin Rendering

[gimymblert]

Dragonmaw and JoseF hate this guy, click here to know why



Porting a Real Life Castle into Your Game When You're Broke

[Shambrook]

Is it spelled like that? Everyone everywhere ever has been misleading me!

It's defintly spelt cel,  JobLeonard doesn't know what they're talking about. The technique refers to the shading common on old school animation cels, (Short for celluloid) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cel

[oahda]

If it's short for celluloid, it's just weird that it ain't cell rather than cel, then. ;-;

BTW, I don't think Leonard italicised the word to correct my spelling, but to bring focus to the cel-shading as opposed to the other thing, so he wasn't trying to imply that he knew better. c:

Lots of good stuff on this account: https://twitter.com/JonnyIO

[JobLeonard]

Holy crap, I didn't even notice we were spelling it differently! I can see how it can look passive-aggressive Shambrok, sorry if I came across that way. Prinsessa's interpretation was what I was going for though: just to emphasize which shader might be responsible for the lighting