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[Skofo]

Thanks for the tutorial, Derek. I needed the excuse to finally bite the bullet and start making something. Looking very-much foward to part two.

I think, in the next one, if discussion starts to derail again, maybe someone should make a 'pros & cons of gamemaker' thread. I don't mean to discourage discussion, but, well... yes.

I agree that it's become something of a gong show.  I did create that "suggest improvements for GM" thread, but frustratingly enough a lot of people just suggested stuff related to the playing of GM games, instead of the creation of them.  Anyway, yeah, I do think this should have stayed focused on the tutorial and things directly related to it (other than the merits of the program that it's about; if you don't like GM, then don't bother posting in this thread).

Get off your high horse.

I say if you do like GM, then don't bother posting here.

How'zat feel? You started derailing the thread again even after the dispute was over just so you could squeeze a self-righteous comment in.

[Inane]

Thanks for the tutorial, Derek. I needed the excuse to finally bite the bullet and start making something. Looking very-much foward to part two.

I think, in the next one, if discussion starts to derail again, maybe someone should make a 'pros & cons of gamemaker' thread. I don't mean to discourage discussion, but, well... yes.

I agree that it's become something of a gong show.  I did create that "suggest improvements for GM" thread, but frustratingly enough a lot of people just suggested stuff related to the playing of GM games, instead of the creation of them.  Anyway, yeah, I do think this should have stayed focused on the tutorial and things directly related to it (other than the merits of the program that it's about; if you don't like GM, then don't bother posting in this thread).

Get off your high horse.

I say if you do like GM, then don't bother posting here.

How'zat feel? You started derailing the thread again even after the dispute was over just so you could squeeze a self-righteous comment in.

Get off your high horse.

I say if you don't like GM, then don't bother posting here.

How'zat feel? You post a self-righteous comment in reply to someone replying to a dispute that's over, which helps to reignite the very dispute you're talking about.

Just let it slide, man, ignore some things when your words just amplify them.

[GregWS]

Listen, we're not usually so confrontational around here at TIGS, so little comments like that aren't usually taken to be negative.  We're a pretty positive bunch after all.

If it matters, I can say that I wasn't directly thinking about all your posts when I made my comment, more generalizing that a discussion started that's both irrelevant and detrimental to this thread.

[Skofo]

Blah. My bad.

[GregWS]

I guess I'd just never assume that anyone's trying to be negative/insulting, because we very rarely are. 

[Derek]

Wow, this thread went everywhere.

But no, I still believe that Game Maker is a good jumping off point to "real programming" because, in my opinion, it lays out some core programming concepts, like the game loop, object-oriented design, etc., in a very visual and easy-to-understand manner.

It's definitely slow, unfortunately.

Although you could make the case that even that teaches you some things about optimizing your code!

[___]

Wow, this thread went everywhere.

But no, I still believe that Game Maker is a good jumping off point to "real programming" because, in my opinion, it lays out some core programming concepts, like the game loop, object-oriented design, etc., in a very visual and easy-to-understand manner.

It's definitely slow, unfortunately.

Although you could make the case that even that teaches you some things about optimizing your code!

I haven't found it as slow as good ole MMF yet ;o

[deadeye]

I haven't found it as slow as good ole MMF yet ;o

What, really?  I never got into GML but if you compare MMF's event system to GM's event system then MMF is way faster.  At least, that's what I've experienced.  Plus they both seem to have some similar tricks you can do to optimize the speed of your game.  I don't mean to derail the thread again or anything, I'm just saying.

[BenH]

What on earth are you guys doing to make GM slow down? :D

Unless I'm trying to display 500 instances of an object, or checking for collisions between them all, then GM's speed hasn't been a problem for me so far.

[deadeye]

What on earth are you guys doing to make GM slow down? :D

Catch the Clown.

[___]

I haven't found it as slow as good ole MMF yet ;o

What, really?  I never got into GML but if you compare MMF's event system to GM's event system then MMF is way faster.  At least, that's what I've experienced.  Plus they both seem to have some similar tricks you can do to optimize the speed of your game.  I don't mean to derail the thread again or anything, I'm just saying.

MMF is way faster?  Fuuucck thaaaaat.  Right now I basically have the same platform engine created in in GML that I've been trying to use for the past year or so in MMF.  MMF starts to slow down to under 50fps when I have like 10 objects be involved in the platform movement.  Plus, MMF makes it so I have to fast loop through every object to do anything logical most of the time, and that slows it down...  the GML engine slows down when I have maybe 50 or 60 objects all moving together at the same time, and with the screen stretch surface rendering.  :I

[GregWS]

Yeah, the ONLY time I've had speed problems in GM is when I did some large scale 3D stuff, which I really shouldn't have been doing in GM anyway.

[deadeye]

Right now I basically have the same platform engine created in in GML that I've been trying to use for the past year or so in MMF.

Read my post again.

I've tried GM's event system (or whatever it's called... not using GML) and yes, without getting into any sort of code whatsoever I've found that MMF is way faster.  That's all I'm saying.

[Skofo]

Yeah, the ONLY time I've had speed problems in GM is when I did some large scale 3D stuff, which I really shouldn't have been doing in GM anyway.

Why not?

It's not your fault that Game Maker takes up over 9000x more memory for a game than the same game written in C++. Stop blaming yourself and restricting yourself, there is nothing that you "shouldn't" be doing. It's simply Game Maker's fault that what it's doing does not work as well as it should. With all due respect, your opinions are one of the most closed-minded and obsessively politically correct I've seen on this forum. I'm not going to further discuss this, I'm not going to post any examples because it's more of a subconscious attitude thing you have which is hard to point out, and I'm sorry if this hurts your feelings, but it feels SO good just to let this out in one post. Your posts have made me pent up rage for you in me, and I just wanted to get that out. Thank you.

Also, on top of 3D, Game Maker doesn't handle physics and inverse kinematics well either.

[GregWS]

I didn't mean that I shouldn't do 3D, just that GM is only set up for fairly cursory 3D projects, and that a proper scale 3D project should be done in software that's more suited for it (so similar to what you said).  I suspect that the 3D functions were added in GM not so much for the creation of 3D games, but for 2.5D games like Bionic Commando: Rearmed and Mega Man Powered Up (both of which I quite liked, btw).

Thanks for being respectful and putting that text line tiny; I read it when it wasn't, and well, yeah.  I'm a pretty progressive guy, so sorry that that hasn't come across as much as maybe it should have.  I do have some limits though, and if that bugs you then I guess it's your right to be put off by that.

And cause I'm always looking for new tools, any recommendations for good 3D game making programs that only require scripting?

[___]

Right now I basically have the same platform engine created in in GML that I've been trying to use for the past year or so in MMF.

Read my post again.

...and if I refuse?

 

[Skofo]

Thanks for being respectful and putting that text line tiny; I read it when it wasn't, and well, yeah.  I'm a pretty progressive guy, so sorry that that hasn't come across as much as maybe it should have.  I do have some limits though, and if that bugs you then I guess it's your right to be put off by that.

Hm, maybe I didn't notice your pretty progressive posts. Well, I feel a lot better getting what I said off my chest. Thanks for not taking offense to it.

And cause I'm always looking for new tools, any recommendations for good 3D game making programs that only require scripting?

Only require scripting as opposed to what? Scripting and modeling? Scripting and drag-and-drop? I'm pretty sure that any decently acclaimed 3D engine out there has functions for creating basic shapes like spheres and cubes without mandating the use of models, if that's what you're asking. If you're looking to make relatively low-tech 3D games but Game Maker isn't filling your needs then I'd look into Panda3D or Irrlicht. Panda3D's primary development language is Python so you may have a relatively easier time using that as opposed to engines that make you use C or C++, while Irrlicht is known for its small size, portability and low spec requirements. I think that 3D is pretty ick and unfun to code so I don't have any experiences with those (yet) but I would get deeper into those two if I chose to give it a shot. Plus they're both free and open source.

[deadeye]

Read my post again.

...and if I refuse?

 

I'm sorry, man.  That did sound kind of bitchy, huh?  I didn't mean it to

[Matt Thorson]

Yeah, the ONLY time I've had speed problems in GM is when I did some large scale 3D stuff, which I really shouldn't have been doing in GM anyway.

Why not?

It's not your fault that Game Maker takes up over 9000x more memory for a game than the same game written in C++. Stop blaming yourself and restricting yourself, there is nothing that you "shouldn't" be doing. It's simply Game Maker's fault that what it's doing does not work as well as it should. With all due respect, your opinions are one of the most closed-minded and obsessively politically correct I've seen on this forum. I'm not going to further discuss this, I'm not going to post any examples because it's more of a subconscious attitude thing you have which is hard to point out, and I'm sorry if this hurts your feelings, but it feels SO good just to let this out in one post. Your posts have made me pent up rage for you in me, and I just wanted to get that out. Thank you.

Also, on top of 3D, Game Maker doesn't handle physics and inverse kinematics well either.

I lol'd at the tiny text part - I think Architekt is a pretty cool cat despite disagreeing with him on quite a few posts he's made.  He is always a very open-minded guy who is very accepting or criticism and others' opinions and I would much sooner apply the "your opinions are one of the most closed-minded" part to you.  I especially love the fact that you started it with "With all due respect" :D

Anyways, yeah, all those GMites should get off their high horses and learn real manly man programming so they can avoid limitations that don't affect the projects they're working on anyways.  They're all just "restricting themselves" to an engine that allows them to be exponentially more productive when really they should be sacrificing productivity for the untold riches of speed and memory gains which would result in... the exact same finished product.

Honestly, if GM forced me to compromise on my vision for a game, I wouldn't hesitate to drop it and search for something more appropriate for the project.  So far this has only happened once.  Real game designers don't care how "hardcore" their code is - they just want to create an awesome finished product.

[Skofo]

Yeah, the ONLY time I've had speed problems in GM is when I did some large scale 3D stuff, which I really shouldn't have been doing in GM anyway.

Why not?

It's not your fault that Game Maker takes up over 9000x more memory for a game than the same game written in C++. Stop blaming yourself and restricting yourself, there is nothing that you "shouldn't" be doing. It's simply Game Maker's fault that what it's doing does not work as well as it should. With all due respect, your opinions are one of the most closed-minded and obsessively politically correct I've seen on this forum. I'm not going to further discuss this, I'm not going to post any examples because it's more of a subconscious attitude thing you have which is hard to point out, and I'm sorry if this hurts your feelings, but it feels SO good just to let this out in one post. Your posts have made me pent up rage for you in me, and I just wanted to get that out. Thank you.

Also, on top of 3D, Game Maker doesn't handle physics and inverse kinematics well either.

I lol'd at the tiny text part - I think Architekt is a pretty cool cat despite disagreeing with him on quite a few posts he's made.  He is always a very open-minded guy who is very accepting or criticism and others' opinions and I would much sooner apply the "your opinions are one of the most closed-minded" part to you.  I especially love the fact that you started it with "With all due respect" :D

Anyways, yeah, all those GMites should get off their high horses and learn real manly man programming so they can avoid limitations that don't affect the projects they're working on anyways.  They're all just "restricting themselves" to an engine that allows them to be exponentially more productive when really they should be sacrificing productivity for the untold riches of speed and memory gains which would result in... the exact same finished product.

Honestly, if GM forced me to compromise on my vision for a game, I wouldn't hesitate to drop it and search for something more appropriate for the project.  So far this has only happened once.  Real game designers don't care how "hardcore" their code is - they just want to create an awesome finished product.

I know what you're taking about. The two engines I've posted aren't anywhere near efficiency and power over productivity, especially compared to Game Maker when it comes to 3D. Game Maker doesn't make 3D programming as friendly as it makes 2D programming, so why not use something that can actually do 3D relatively well? I posted minimalistic/Python-coded 3D engines instead of OGRE/pure C++ and OpenGL/DirectX for productivity reasons, not to be hardcore. Otherwise I would've suggested writing it in machine code.

For 2D games I openly admit that Game Maker is great at quick prototyping, but with 3D that is simply not the case. You're better off just using something else if you're going to be primarilly utilizing three dimensions.