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[ANtY]

what's anty's game that didn't sell? i don't remember it

my impressions: looks polished, and a bit like puzzle quest; i'd probably play buy it if it were on sale or something, or on steam, or both. but it's not the kind of game that makes me want to buy it at full price on a dev's site

in general i think the match-3 niche is dead and died long ago (around 2005?), it's a bad idea to be a 'late entry' into a popular genre, no matter how good the entry is, because once a genre fashion fades it becomes a niche rather than something everyone likes. it's like making a nes game many years after the snes came out, it's not going to sell well no matter how good of an nes game it is, because everyone has moved to the snes

i think this is just the danger of just making a game in whatever genre's popular at the time, because often by the time you're finished with the game the genre's popularity has faded away

thanks for the feedback, yeah, I already realized my mistakes with the game, I have to leave it like that, anyway I made it available to buy directly from my website http://spiffygoats.com/games/rune-masters/ even though most likely no one will buy it

[Superb Joe]

Maybe I should have a kid  

same, i'd really hate to end up being a game developer

plus I can take the kid to game jams and live vicariously through them. I'll make sure to yell at them often.  

i'll teach my kid how to be good at sports and all the soft spots he can punch on your kid so he relinquishes his lunch money

[gimymblert]

pfiou i'm glad i'm no more the problem, i'm a childless 32 year old mixed race man

[moi]

pfiou i'm glad i'm no more the problem, i'm a childless 32 year old mixed race man

implying you're not white inside

[gimymblert]

What part of mixed race you didn't get? Well I guess my asian and amerindian part trumps it all!

[s0]

pfiou i'm glad i'm no more the problem, i'm a childless 32 year old mixed race man

implying you're not white inside

actually i would say most ppl are red inside (living people at any rate).

[moi]

<make you own joke about people being all white inside after I pull out, possibly about people's moms>

[InfiniteStateMachine]

Maybe I should have a kid  

same, i'd really hate to end up being a game developer

plus I can take the kid to game jams and live vicariously through them. I'll make sure to yell at them often.  

i'll teach my kid how to be good at sports and all the soft spots he can punch on your kid so he relinquishes his lunch money

I'll encourage my kid to join a gang so he can retaliate. His lunch money will aleady be spent making his dealing quota,

[Superb Joe]

Maybe I should have a kid  

same, i'd really hate to end up being a game developer

plus I can take the kid to game jams and live vicariously through them. I'll make sure to yell at them often.  

i'll teach my kid how to be good at sports and all the soft spots he can punch on your kid so he relinquishes his lunch money

I'll encourage my kid to join a gang so he can retaliate. His lunch money will aleady be spent making his dealing quota,

i'm glad to know responsible parenting will be taught to the next generation

[InfiniteStateMachine]

Entrepreneurship and networking are tent poles.

[Superb Joe]

so are tent poles, also once i purchase a tent to go camping with my kid he will have access to a rubber mallet with which to intimidate the other children

[Pandara_RA!]

This scares me, but by time I might think of going AAA over indie I'd expect it to be a bit more lax at most companies

[jamesprimate]

back to the topic, is there any reason, beside poor management, that this paradigm of 80-hour a week perpetual crunch time exists? granted, im a contractor so i have limited  experience with that aspect of game making, but almost all of the successful projects ive been with have been fairly well-paced and with realistic expectations that were, in general, achieved. this was all with indie companies and smaller teams, so obviously a AAA monster will be different, but i would assume that the role of a competent project manager would be exactly to mitigate this sort of thing on a larger scale. do they just not do this? why is it so widespread in this industry? its baffling.

it seems to me from talking with some friends who do work with at some shovelware app factory that will not be named, that the reason they have to work such shit hours is that 80% of their work winds up scrapped, whole projects repeatedly abandoned and re-worked, etc., while their job stability are dictated by arbitrary deadlines. I can't figure this out: the products are at best mediocre by any measurement, and clearly only designed to pick up a reliable buck from saturating a genre, so... why waste such a vast amount of time, money and burn out your employees constantly re-working 5 bad clone games? It seems insane to me.

[Tumetsu]

why is it so widespread in this industry?

I don't have personal experience but by what I know about the software industry, the problem might be that noone or only few people can estimate the time and work which is required to produce software. Even most of the software-engineers themselves misjudge their productivity and time it takes to produce something. At least until they grow experienced enough. Couple this with management who sometimes don't have much of software development background and try to apply methods from other industries to a software engineering.

Just a speculation though.

[siskavard]

back to the topic, is there any reason, beside poor management, that this paradigm of 80-hour a week perpetual crunch time exists? granted, im a contractor so i have limited  experience with that aspect of game making, but almost all of the successful projects ive been with have been fairly well-paced and with realistic expectations that were, in general, achieved. this was all with indie companies and smaller teams, so obviously a AAA monster will be different, but i would assume that the role of a competent project manager would be exactly to mitigate this sort of thing on a larger scale. do they just not do this? why is it so widespread in this industry? its baffling.

it seems to me from talking with some friends who do work with at some shovelware app factory that will not be named, that the reason they have to work such shit hours is that 80% of their work winds up scrapped, whole projects repeatedly abandoned and re-worked, etc., while their job stability are dictated by arbitrary deadlines. I can't figure this out: the products are at best mediocre by any measurement, and clearly only designed to pick up a reliable buck from saturating a genre, so... why waste such a vast amount of time, money and burn out your employees constantly re-working 5 bad clone games? It seems insane to me.

I think you answered your own question. Usually the people in charge of a mediocre project, usually copycat games etc. make arbitrary changes either because of the power trip or they read some statistic somewhere that X genre sells way more than Y genre, so they'll change up the entire project without any concern for for the budget or deadline. That's because there are people willing to work 80 hour weeks in fear of losing their jobs.

I lay half the blame on people who actually work those kind of hours without any compensation. They give dumbass management a very clear signal that its OK for them to fuck up because the bottom feeders will always pick up the slack, for no extra pay.

[gimymblert]

peter's principle and hofstader's law, hand in hand with pareto's law

[baconman]

I'm telling you. It's not industry-specific. This is how our generation is treated now, regardless of what career you're building into. Ask anyone who works in a hospital. An oilfield. A farm. A retail or automotive company.

WE ARE HANDING OUR PARENTS/GRANDPARENTS GENERATION OUR BALLS FOR FREE.

KNOCK IT THE FUCK OFF ALREADY.

[Oskuro]

We are the generation(s) of convenience and complacency, which means that a great many are unprepared to deal with the upcoming hardships of adult life.

IT industries have this be more noticeable because of their makeup, generally computer nerds with little in the way of a rebellious attitude. Not to mention that, socially, IT gets no respect (as most people still see the industry as that "new geeky thing").

But yes, more socially respected sectors, like healthcare, are still getting the shaft in this.


What to do? Simple:

• Read on the Law: It isn't unusual for employers to ignore where the boundaries of their power lie. A well informed worker can often slap them back when they overstep their bounds. And it is good to be prepared for any curve balls they might throw your way.
• Keep your eyes open for opportunities: A worker's greatest power is the ability to quit and move on to something else. Exercise this power by always having a plan B, or a way out. Many employers get extremely nervous when they realize the "I can fire you" threat no longer applies.

Mind, you, I'm not saying employers are always evil, just pointing that it is easy for the employer/employee relationship to go bad due, mostly, to ignorance and complacency on both parts.

[Sar]

What to do? Simple:

I would add: realise that if your employer is the kind of employer who will give you shit for knowing your rights, that this is not the kind of place you want to work anyway. Look for a way out as soon as possible. It may not be easy or quick, but look for it. They will naturally end up with the worst set of people for doing the job they want done, as all the good people leave, and it will be entirely their own fault... and you don't want to be around when they hit rock bottom.

[Oskuro]

@Sar: Indeed. I would wrap that under the the "have a plan B" option. Sadly, even a good employer can become a bad one when things get tough. Worse, though, sometimes you can't really choose.