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« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2013, 07:24:44 AM »

what's more likely is the reviewer is a moron/ea fanboy
which is even sadder lol. i can't think of any other "medium" where there's so much critical consensus.

isn't there also an aspect of pandering to fanboy culture to it tho? i mean whenever a reviewer gives a popular game a low score theyll have to put up with a million pissed off nerds typing death threats on the internet. and i guess many reviewers just follow the "consensus" because they don't want to have to deal w/ that?
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« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2013, 07:31:28 AM »

isn't there also an aspect of pandering to fanboy culture to it tho?
yes 100% yes this yes

"gamer" culture is full of fucking manchildren who refuse to shut up until they're completely pleased, and then they complain some more because realism or something
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« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2013, 08:00:07 AM »

isn't there also an aspect of pandering to fanboy culture to it tho?
yes 100% yes this yes

"gamer" culture is full of fucking manchildren who refuse to shut up until they're completely pleased, and then they complain some more because realism or something

I don't see a big difference from how movie and music reviews are being handled these days. People clamor for confirmation, I do too. The problem with gaming reviews is that they have too big of an impact.
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« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2013, 08:20:17 AM »

there's not a huge difference, but it's definitely there

movie and music fans, they still actually enjoy their medium of choice??
gamers seem to complain about god damn everything
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« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2013, 08:47:44 AM »

To be honest; gamers probably have to put up with more crap and invest more money than movie buffs or music nerds. There is more disappointment to be had if you play a lot of games.

Then again a lot of people are just whiny kids.
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« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2013, 08:59:24 AM »

I don't think that we'll get past the whiny, entitled gamers for a pretty long time. Haha.

As far as reviews go though, I almost wish that numbered reviews just disappeared, but I think that they drive more traffic than non-numbered reviews do. I think people want information quickly, even if that information is watered down to a single number.
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« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2013, 09:12:18 AM »

the difference imo is that in music and movies, people usually accept works for what they are and either like or dislike or have whatever kind of reaction to them. in "gamer culture" there's a tendency for people to dwell on every little detail endlessly and make demands to have shit changed according to their taste (see mass effect 3 ending controversy) and etc. not excluding myself here.

i'd say that even tho fanboyism exists in other "media" there's at least a modicum of critical distance. "gamers" often just act like spoiled children when they aren't being pandered to.

o also there's the whole "console war" thing which afaik is unique to games.
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« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2013, 09:55:33 AM »

Designed by committee, reviewed by committee.

Games become pretty dull sometimes.
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« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2013, 09:59:27 AM »

the difference is that gamers are manchildren and in cinema that type of individual is largely ignored / relegated to marvel film fan forums, whereas with games (and comics, etc,) they are the most vocal / pervasive fanbase

honestly, i don't think games get criticized enough, and what criticism they receive is of an entirely different variety than what films / whatever receives. everything is just a gut reaction; there is no real thought involved among game critics or the teeming masses
« Last Edit: April 22, 2013, 10:05:50 AM by Blademasterbobo » Logged

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« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2013, 10:56:32 AM »

honestly, i don't think games get criticized enough, and what criticism they receive is of an entirely different variety than what films / whatever receives. everything is just a gut reaction
yes
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« Reply #30 on: April 23, 2013, 08:24:22 PM »

Often, the mixed review games are the better overall "games" with a bit worse graphics or gameplay, and the high reviewed ones have whiz-bang graphics and production values but are more shallow overall.
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« Reply #31 on: April 23, 2013, 10:13:26 PM »

game reviews *are* bought, just not directly. they aren't bought like 'here's some money for a good review, journalist'. they're bought in the sense of a site or magazine that reviews games is reliant on advertising dollars from game companies; the companies advertise on those sites, that's how those sites make their money. if a company gets bad reviews from a site, they may pull their ads, and the site would lose money

in other words it works a bit like lobbying works in the US. corporations aren't like 'here mr congressman, here's 4000$, vote for my bill' it's more indirect, like an implicit 'i gave you 45,000$ for your campaign, but if you are unfriendly by my interests you may not get that money next campaign'
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« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2013, 01:49:23 AM »

Sounds like how Jeff Gertsman got fired. Funny that gamespot bought giantbomb though.


Anyways if Demons Souls (at least the original reviews before the ball started rolling) and God Hand are average games then we really need more average games.
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« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2013, 03:27:49 AM »

Demon's Souls got mediocre reviews initially because it suffered from a number of poor design design decisions (lack of checkpoints in the early game when the player is learning to play, a system that halves your HP as punishment for dying, restrictive encumbrance system) that are apparent up front, but can be later forgiven when it finds its niche of players who get drawn in by late game elements like the subtle environmental story and new game+. I also suspect there's some bias in the late reviews, since once the game's been out it's going to be ignored by anyone with middle of the road opinions and you're going to see a lot of people who are only reviewing it because they either loved it or hated it, and generally people don't go out of their way to buy games they're going to hate.

Demon's Souls isn't well regarded because it's an average game, it's good because the good elements are unique and interesting enough to attract players who are hungry for original game design and will suffer through a little bad to get at the good. It could have been by tuning up elements like encumbrance and the death system for at least the first play-through while the player tries to get their bearings.

Mixed bag reviews are good for your typical TIG-er because you're dealing with experienced gamers who will generally rate an original experience higher than a well-crafted but plain experience. In a casual gaming circle that doesn't have that same depth of experience a game that offers pretty graphics but doesn't accomplish anything new is a better game simply because it's new to those players. They need to get through that low-hanging fruit before they need to start accepting mediocre graphics or poor design decisions as a cost of getting to play something that offers an original, clever design element.
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« Reply #34 on: April 24, 2013, 04:38:41 AM »

I've read some things about reviews being "purchased", but I never really looked into it. I just think that average games have a charm that highly polished games, or perhaps just big-budget AAA games lack? The industry, publisher-studio dynamic might have something to do with it.
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« Reply #35 on: April 24, 2013, 07:09:33 AM »

To be honest; gamers probably have to put up with more crap and invest more money than movie buffs or music nerds.

You're joking, right? Movie theater buffs spend more on a ticket to a single viewing of a movie than many of us do for games on Steam/PSN/XBLA anyday, and we get to KEEP those. Music is kind of subjective though; and I'd say more "on par" with games, except where you count gaming music as being part of the gaming experience that comes with the game. You don't get magical DDR stepcharts or GH/RB notecharts just for buying an album, you know... (unless it's Pearl Jam's "Ten" maybe.)


Even the greater indie games here can be considered "average" games; regardless of how spectacularly fun they are. You really think Super Hexagon is gonna take home a 10/10 score? Well, how hard it is to argue (for or against) the logic that maybe it should? It's a bundle of pure, raw, addictive joy that's completely respectful of your time. And arguably, either the best or worst story ever, depending on how much you love to read text in games.
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« Reply #36 on: April 24, 2013, 08:44:23 AM »

I've read some things about reviews being "purchased", but I never really looked into it.

Well let's dive in, shall we?  This article is all you need to know about how this shit goes down.

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I'm on the eighth floor of a fancy hotel in Beverly Hills (in real life, not the game). The royal suite, I think it is called. It's huge. I'm in a long dark room, sitting in a cushioned white chair in front of a flat-screen TV that's running BioShock Infinite on a PS3.

Ding, ding, ding.  Those red flags should be going off right now.  This is not an atmosphere where an objective appraisal of art is going to occur.  You put me in a luxury hotel for a night and I'd tell you that a piece of poop you placed on a pedestal was going to be the next game changer for video games.  Like, holy shit, it seems like Stephen Totillo might've forgot to mention the prostitutes that 2k Games provided for them, but already this paints a worrying picture of how these games are presented to people.

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There are a few people on the opposite side of this long room. Same deal. I think there are other rooms in this suite with people set up on 360s and PCs. There are PR folks and other minders. Folks from Irrational, the development studio… or from Take Two, the publisher, I guess (not sure, because I arrived late. Blame the traffic!).

And he's got handlers.  Like a noble show pony, he must be gently led through the crowds.  Shhhh, shhhh, Stephen Totillo, my noble steed.  Let me gently pat your snout as I lead you along through this magical journey into the land of Bioshock.  Do not buck or whinny, for I am here.

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I was given a choice of which platform to play. Any console version would do, I said.

This is the person being doted over by powerful businesses, ladies and gentlemen.  The guy playing an FPS on a PS3.

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Oh, before I sat in my chair I had to remove an action figure from the seat. It was new and in its box. I think it was for the game.

Sometimes I have to wonder if these guys are legitimately unfazed by the swag, or if they just have to act like they do.  Because first of all, I have a lot of free shit I got from going to cons, and it's all on my shelf, as a shrine to my perennial virginity.  But I don't know how I'd handle getting swag if it was my job to rate the things the swag was attached to.  I guess I wouldn't just move the free gift off of my seat and sit down, being all like 'oh is this a guy from the game?'  It's a gift, you git.  You proudly announce every other luxury that you were supplied with, but you can't allow yourself to get hype over a 12" poseable Elizabeth with judo-chop action?  Or Arctic Assault Booker?

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There are also snacks on this table and I'm told there will be two dinners. Two! The event goes late.


Yeah man, I always eat two dinners when I'm burning the midnight oil.  The doctor says they might have to take my foot, but I'm still hobblin' out to get my Fourth Meal.

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I've been eating potato chips while typing this. Chips from a bag that was in a bowl next to the TV. This means that I didn't have the bag in the bowl anymore. And apparently THAT means that the hotel staffer who asked me if I wanted a drink before (there's an open bar here, the better to preview this game, I guess) and to whom I said, "No thanks," came over to my personal snack bowl while I was typing this and put a fresh bag of chips in the bowl.

All morals are lost when the phrase 'open bar' is said.  I'd drown a bag of kittens for you if you offered me a night of free booze and video games.  I think the only way I'd rate a game more highly is if you put a gun to my head and told me to.  Shit man, three free Jack and Cokes and I'll find a number higher than ten to rate your game.  

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The chip-bowl-filling hotel guy just said the buffet is now open, but I want to play more.

QUICK, GET HIM AWAY FROM THE GAME BEFORE HE REALIZES HOW BAD THE COMBAT IS.  I REPEAT, STEPHEN TOTILLO HAS ALMOST GOT A GUN IN BOOKERS HAND, GET HIM OUT OF THERE!

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Aw. Game froze.

THIS IS NOT A DRILL.  WE ARE AT CODE ORANGE.  GET HIM TO THE SECOND DINNER, STAT!

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I used to be worried about BioShock Infinite. Delays and news of studio departures can have that effect. Not any more.

And there you have it.  The death of criticism comes not with a bang, but with the crunch of a Cheeto.

Also, this all came on the tail end of Kotaku trying to justify themselves as real critics when that whole Doritogate thing was happening.  So, haha.    
« Last Edit: April 24, 2013, 09:01:17 AM by Samtagonist » Logged
ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #37 on: April 24, 2013, 08:55:31 AM »

yep, that sort of thing is what i meant by indirect bribery. the industry never directly tells someone to give them a good review in exchange for money, instead they do stuff like give gifts and free trips and other goodies. that particular journalist seems so used to it that he doesn't even mind writing about it in great detail, never realizing how it sounds to outsiders
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« Reply #38 on: April 24, 2013, 09:03:21 AM »

Quote
I've been eating potato chips while typing this. Chips from a bag that was in a bowl next to the TV. This means that I didn't have the bag in the bowl anymore. And apparently THAT means that the hotel staffer who asked me if I wanted a drink before (there's an open bar here, the better to preview this game, I guess) and to whom I said, "No thanks," came over to my personal snack bowl while I was typing this and put a fresh bag of chips in the bowl.


Fig. 1: The Game Journalist in its natural habitat
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Blademasterbobo
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« Reply #39 on: April 24, 2013, 09:06:25 AM »

the other underlying theme to that article is that the dude is literally a 14 year old trapped in an adult male's body
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