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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperPlaytesting[Feed. Req.] Social Satire RPG
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Author Topic: [Feed. Req.] Social Satire RPG  (Read 8996 times)
ஒழுக்கின்மை
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« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2007, 04:34:29 PM »

I agree w/ Guert, playtesting helps us just as much as it helps the people whose games we playtest, it makes us better game designers, and in helping others make better games the average quality of independent games goes up, which helps everyone long-term because it'll draws more interest into independent games.
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Kon-Tiki
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« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2007, 07:23:31 AM »

Did a replay of it (still am playing, but some program demanded attention Roll Eyes) Two things so far:

1) A typo: Near the beginning, when talking to Ruby in the girls' room, she says "mantenance man" instead of "maintenance man"

2) When you press i to get more information on the gambit game when it's initially introduced, part of the explanation's obscured by the "Prizes/Music/third thing" buttons.

Edit:
3) Same error as with the library thing, but when losing the exposing game to liar girl in the hallway, at the same day you figure out about Max and the dean. Error log:
Quote
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "main.py", line 74, in ?
  File "main.py", line 29, in main
  File "main.py", line 64, in gamemain
  File "faceEngn.pyo", line 68, in RunFaces
  File "explore.pyo", line 402, in Core
  File "fnfEvents.pyo", line 80, in PumpEvents
  File "fnfEvents.pyo", line 89, in HandleTimedEvents
  File "encounters.pyo", line 104, in PopUpEncounter
  File "faceEngn.pyo", line 155, in UpstageFaces
  File "encounters.pyo", line 454, in Core
  File "fnfEvents.pyo", line 81, in PumpEvents
  File "fnfEvents.pyo", line 135, in HandleTheEvents
  File "faces.pyo", line 159, in DoLitAction
  File "encounters.pyo", line 774, in ExposeConfront
  File "faceEngn.pyo", line 174, in UpstageFaces
  File "resolution.pyo", line 175, in TransitionIn
  File "dangerCentral.pyo", line 625, in AdvancePlot
NameError: global name 'exit' is not defined
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "main.py", line 74, in ?
  File "main.py", line 29, in main
  File "main.py", line 64, in gamemain
  File "faceEngn.pyo", line 68, in RunFaces
  File "explore.pyo", line 402, in Core
  File "fnfEvents.pyo", line 80, in PumpEvents
  File "fnfEvents.pyo", line 89, in HandleTimedEvents
  File "encounters.pyo", line 104, in PopUpEncounter
  File "faceEngn.pyo", line 155, in UpstageFaces
  File "encounters.pyo", line 454, in Core
  File "fnfEvents.pyo", line 81, in PumpEvents
  File "fnfEvents.pyo", line 135, in HandleTheEvents
  File "faces.pyo", line 159, in DoLitAction
  File "encounters.pyo", line 774, in ExposeConfront
  File "faceEngn.pyo", line 174, in UpstageFaces
  File "resolution.pyo", line 175, in TransitionIn
  File "dangerCentral.pyo", line 625, in AdvancePlot
NameError: global name 'exit' is not defined
« Last Edit: July 11, 2007, 07:33:18 AM by Kon-Tiki » Logged

Raf Vermeulen
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« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2007, 01:00:13 PM »

I was just talking from a personal standpoint. For example, if I was doing this, I would offer a free copy to all who would submit constructive feedback. Constructive feedback being that which I find to be constructive feedback. If you were helpful and took time to write detailed experience of playing the game, here is a free copy for you. This is not about earning as a beta-tester on shareware. It’s more about courtesy, that is, what I consider courtesy in my book.

But yeah, I would probably to the testing too if I was not at the end of my monthly prepaid bandwitdth and every MB counted. I was only rambling.
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ஒழுக்கின்மை
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« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2007, 06:48:11 PM »

I agree, but -- "And you know Musenik, ALL OF US are trying to make a living, not just you." -- is that courtesy either?
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« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2007, 11:27:43 PM »

One other thing, I didn't post this game looking for bugs. The questions I asked had to do with experience. What was the experience like? I'm grateful for the bug reports. But my primary goal is to see if the game is ready for an audience.

There's plenty of work to do and plenty of room for improvement, but overall, the game has been shaping up rather well. I've received feedback from several other forums, some more and less positive than this one, but I'm very optimistic.

Thanks again everyone! Hopefully, I'll be hearing from more of you soon.

Keith Nemitz
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Mousechief Co.
www.mousechief.com

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« Reply #25 on: July 12, 2007, 04:30:17 PM »

Ok, so I played the game for a couple of hours. I may repeat what has already been said before.

Alright, here we go, in no particular order...

First of all, the game has a nice board game feel to it. Like you mentionned earlier, it feels like some board game from the 20's that you've dusted off from your grand-parent's attic. The game doesn't play quite like a board game but it still has the same vibe.

The description of the zone where you are should be made clearer, either place don a card like the rest of the texts or simply made bigger and clearer. All text is easy to read ecept the description of the selected region

You definitively have to scroll the window faster. It's not that bad at first but the more you play, the more you want to explore the board and it gets irritating.

I think the HUD (GUI if you rather say) takes too much place. You need to focus our attention on what is going on in the board, not to show us the girl cards. I say, ttry to compact the girl card section to half it's size. Perhaps placing them half piled up would do the trick. In all cases, we have too much focus on the unuseful info when we are browsing the board. Other wise, it's ok.

The mini-games (Taunt, expose, fib, etc...) are either too easy or too random. Sometimes you feel like you are being given the answer too eaisly, other times you jsut don't know what to do.

Taunt: The taunt game is quite interesting, yet I don't feel like I really know what I'm choosing. Perhaps there is a way but I can't seem to figure it out by myself. Perhaps you could think of a more interactive way to use the concept. Perhaps make the player select the words he want to use in a taunt, a bit like the expose game. You use the skill points you have to concoct a nice taunt that'll throw off the other. Think about a way to make the player decide a bit more about the words used in the taunting. 

Expose: Quite easy to play. I say that you should choose more confusing words. try to design your puzzles with two possible sentences. This way, the player will ahve toi think about who is saying the sentence and put it in context rather than just choose the word that fits the most. Also, I'd give the small words to the player right away, like I, AND, IF, THE, etc... Kind of frustrating to use a point to find an I. What you could do is that bigger words cost more points. The player then decides if he wants to guess more small and easy to find words or guess more confusing words.

Fib: I'm not sure how you could make this game less random. I just don't know how I'm suppose to read the cpu mind here. I won the game numerous time (actualy never lost), but it always felt too random. I haven't really thought much about it but maybe you can think of something to remove a bit of the randomness.

Flirt: Interesting but it also feels a bit random. It's like all you need to really have to win is alot of skill points. You just pick up something randomly and it may work. I think I've figured how it actualy worked but it's still not 100% clear to me. Try to make it more obvious. Anyway,I haven't thought much about this game either so I can't really say.
 
I don't understand what's the use of saving in multiple places since resuming a game loads up the last saved game. Either save only one game or make me choose what game I want to load. Now of course you have the load game option, but the first thing we see it's Resume hence making us think that we may choose something here. Your menu should have New game, Load game and help. You don't need anything more. Since saving the game doesn't mean pausing it, you can't expect the player to remember where he was last time he saved. You have to give him an idea of what he's loading. Your saved game screen shows the time of the game saved, which is quite enough for that, so you ahve to let the player see tahtscreen before he starts. Some player might only play once in a month and play dozen of games in between so you have to help him out with his memory. Wink

When playing, why can we click on teh cards to make the game progress (like parley) but when the segment is over, we can't click on teh last card and we have to click a continue button instead. try to make it more alike. If you sue a system where the player clicks card, keep him clicking cards all the way when they are cards. If you want to use buttons, only use buttons all the time.

When the school closes for the night, i say remove all the pawns from the school that you can't access. there's no point of clicking 10 times on pawns and being told to come back later.

I ahve no clear example of this becuse I forgot to keep a note of it but some prhasing could use some work. If I have a bit of time, I'll post a couple of suggestions. It would also be interesting if you could look for slangs from the 20's and insert them in the game. It would really add to the vibe.

The game's representation is good. the board art is nice, but the closeup of secondary characters, such as Maximilian, could use a bit of work. It's not that bad but it doesn't look as good as the rest. The music is ok though, it pretty much fits the whole game.

if you want to use alot of random stuff in the game, it's ok, but try to show us why it's random. Rolling wirtual dices is alot more staisfying than trying to figure out how the cpu reacted. For instance, if you want to keep the fib game random, you could have a dice system where the player chooses how much points he wants to add to his dice rolls, using his skill points, and then rolls the dice. the cpu rolls his dice and who ever has the highest total wins. 

It's an idea but it's just to illsutrate that randomness is easier to understand when you see it happen. Dices are a good way to show the random factor to the player.

I'd also add comfirmation on saving and quitting. Always confimr if the player really wants to save on that spot or wnats to quit. You never know when he may mis-click

We'll that's it for now, if I think of something else, I'll let you know....
Later!
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« Reply #26 on: July 12, 2007, 04:43:03 PM »

I quite liked the insulting, actually. Very Monkey Island-ish. It would help to be able to read the entire insult, instead of the first x characters. As previously mentioned, it'd also help to only allow each insult once every fight (or once for each fighter). It's too easy if you know that your opponent doesn't know how to tackle a certain insult, as you'll just keep using that one.

The flirting is indeed too random. I've lost a few times because, even though I got the right item immediately, the boy kept asking the same thing over. I've managed to get Radio Boy in my first run, but he was impossible in my second run, due to that. Also, if you got a higher amount of hits to score, like with the school secretary or that cop, it makes it just plain impossible to win. Then again, I almost had the secretary once, but then he kept asking clovers. Also, after flirting with the secretary for a while, he'll use two signs (like spades and diamonds) at once... what're you supposed to do with those?
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Raf Vermeulen
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« Reply #27 on: July 12, 2007, 05:31:39 PM »

Thank you Guert,

I doubt I'll be able to address all of your concerns, but I greatly appreciate your feedback! You make many compelling cases for change.

The location descriptions are meant to be supplementary. Therefore we kept them from demanding attention. I'd rather remove them then require the player to read them.

We chose the scrolling pace to give a sense of exploration. Once explored, it may seem slow, but it should also feel controlled. This is not an action game. Compared to huge areas in games like Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter nights, our small maps are quickly traversed.

Yes, the mini-game start out very easy. They do become more challenging. If a low glamor girl fibs against a high savvy, the odds are extremely difficult. Taunts can turn on a few missing retorts - be sure to collect them all! Expose become quite difficult when more complex grammatical structures and more obscure words are used, in addition to very long secrets. Gambit, like Fib, is greatly influenced by the strength of the participant's talents. Pump them up!

I like your suggestion for improving Taunt. It's pretty interesting, but we probably won't implement it. It's too hard to describe to casual gamers, and the current system is fairly popular.

Flirting has a random component, but if you decipher the boy's pattern, you won't have to spend as many flirts guessing.

In Expose, the words 'a' and 'I' do not cost anything to reveal. (The reason was, they made poor text buttons in the guess box).

This early part of the game is meant to be very easy, to build confidence in less sophisticated players. I know we may lose some serious gamers, but we're hoping the story will draw many to find the tougher challenges later. Good luck assembling the appeals tribunal and stacking their votes!

I will be looking into more ways we can be consistent about revealing and dismissing text. Thanks.

The 'school closed' pawns are there to let you advance time to the next day. They're all over the place, because we didn't want players to miss their usefulness. Same is true for the truant officer over the weekend. They are tools for skipping over less active periods of time.

We're using 20s slang in measured doses. Overly 'cliche' can kill dialog.

We confirm saves only if they overwrite a previous save game. And we affirm a save when quitting. It uses a special save slot. I'm not sure the affirmation is fully implemented yet.

Your feedback was great! I'm sorry it sounded like you weren't enjoying the game. It's certainly not for everyone. I hope I haven't sounded dismissive but explanatory. Your detailed, constructive criticism is exactly what I need right now as we implement the last significant design revisions.



Kon-Tiki,

So you found a case where complex flirts were offered. I didn't think I had put any into the demo. They require multiple return flirts to answer. See above for more info about Flirt.


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« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2007, 08:48:41 PM »

Well, to be honest, I enjoyed it. I also believe that my comments are simply my vision of the same game. Sometimes it fits, sometimes it don't. I don't mind if you do not agree, you're not me Wink

Anywho, let me assure you that if I didn't like the game at all, you'd know. My comments might sound very negative but in the end, I listed what bugged me, not what I liked. I should really point out that I wouldn't write this much about a game and wouldn't play more than 5 minutes if I didn't enjoy it.

I always try to be very hard in my critics. Not because I enjoy it but because it's the best way to take other critics written in few words, like "you suck". If you can take a critic like mine, two word comments should roll off your back. 

Also, I mentionned this before but the more ideas you have for a feature, the more what remains in the game is solid. Too many times I've seen features kept because no one came up with an alternative. Just the fact of reading this kind of post and defending your point of view makes you see if you truly believe in your view or not.

Anyway, keep us informed of the changes and post us a new version when possible!
Cheers! Smiley
 
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« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2007, 08:50:02 AM »

Thanks to everyone who participated! The download links and the app have now expired.

Any last thoughts?
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