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April 06, 2020, 04:40:44 PM

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TIGSource ForumsHiddenThe DromeValley of the DeadUnpaid Workvoxel game
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gimymblert
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« Reply #40 on: May 22, 2013, 09:40:53 AM »

cease fire, the target is down, i repeat the target is down
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rogger
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« Reply #41 on: May 22, 2013, 11:34:15 AM »

nikki: Thanks.
Trolls: grow up and stop spamming this thread with your stupid comments.

As I said before, I'm tinkerer - I find new applications for things that has been around for some time, but haven't been used this way before. I'm not an artisan [programmer] who has the actual skills to create a viable product.

Anyway, back to the merits of the project. I see a lot of comments denigrating the concept of focusing only on creative side. It takes years for project to take shape [from idea to product]. In the meantime, idea constantly evolves, taking inspiration from various sources.

There are also external factors like technical/resource constraints, for example the technology simply wasn't there or it was prohibitively expensive. Fortunately, the progress brings costs down [sometimes to zero - opensource!]. So, things impossible yesterday are possible today. It is therefore remotely possible [let's say 1 in 100] this project might turn into a product.

I have thoroughly checked the list of MC clones and derivatives, and haven't found one that is essentially similar to mine. Which can be explained in two ways: 1/ somebody had this idea before and failed - idea was either crap or was ahead of it's time, 2/ this is unique idea - either too crazy or too obvious for anybody to take it on


Speaking of "crazy" ideas http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-05-22/inside-googles-secret-lab. Should we all be more like them in pursuit of new projects or focusing on reasons why something cannot be done?

“When it comes to creating businesses that are arguably a strategic overreach and likely margin-eroding, that is when you get concerned,” [...]. Other investors remember that the founders’ ranging curiosity is what led to winning bets on businesses that seemed irrelevant at the time—Android, for example, which runs on 75 percent of all smartphones shipped around the world in the first quarter, according to the research firm IDC. “It’s a culture that has enabled them to not get caught flat-footed by transitions,” - translation for trolls: sometimes very small bets today bring great results tomorrow.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 12:35:37 PM by rogger » Logged
Chromanoid
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« Reply #42 on: May 22, 2013, 01:02:54 PM »

My day job is software developer. I am a game development hobbyist since I am 12 years old. I have new ideas every day. In every idea I see some potential. Some random ideas:

elevator quest (more or less a thematic idea with some minor gameplay gimmicks) -> tiny mobile rpg about travelling through an ancient mega tower with an elevator as your homebase, you can upgrade the elevator etc.

social card game [working title socio ccg] (innovative idea (?))-> you become a card in a customizable card game and can build decks with cards of yourself, friends and random strangers. You can level up your card and make it rare etc. Every player draws some cards on a daily basis, the maximum count of cards you can own is limited...

I don't lack ideas I need time and long term motivation. I guess many will feel the same, even you might feel this way. Creative projects are about making ideas come true. Google Labs has the money to experiment, I have enough time and resoucers to help a little here and there and experiment with my own ideas.

I wish you good luck, but I think you will have to expose your idea a little more to get at least some people interested. Sorry that I posted here. I am active on three game development boards and once in a while I cannot resist to post in these kind of "let's make an mmo, ps i am the idea guy"-threads. I should know better. Talk is silver, silence is golden.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 01:09:38 PM by Chromanoid » Logged
Whiteclaws
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« Reply #43 on: May 22, 2013, 01:37:22 PM »

Carry on !
*grabs some pop-corn*
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gimymblert
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« Reply #44 on: May 22, 2013, 02:34:04 PM »

@rogger
YOu don't get it, idea might be great but nobody will help you if you do not help yourself first and demonstrate talent or resource. You can either lend the mony or got into the works yourself.

Remember you are seeking people on an undisclosed idea without proven track records, people with track record explain to you why you won't go anywhere. You fail at the very basic things that you are not even pitching an idea thus demonstrate nothing at all. If you seek help you should have at least a good pitch, you don't even have that.

Notch didn't ask for help first, he grew then find a team.
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« Reply #45 on: May 22, 2013, 02:34:58 PM »

Programming a game prototype is a very long and difficult work. Even when reusing an existing code base (opensource or older project) it's still a very long and difficult work.

Assuming you find a programmer to help you, this guy (assuming he has a full time job or is a student) will have to sacrifice his evenings, his weekends and his vacations to push the project forward. What will you be doing while he's working? Order him around? Relax until he's done? Try to think of some even greater feature idea that will require even more work from him? I doubt you will find anybody who accept that.

Programming is difficult. Sure it's fun but it's still difficult. Learning programming is difficult as well. It's a long process that takes time, trials and errors. Programmers value their skills, and they value other people for their skills. The reason people here can hardly resist the temptation of bashing you is because you represent everything programmers hate : an unskilled person who's too lazy to learn but still have the pretension to manage others.

Most professional programmers are, unfortunately, already working under incompetent morons at their day job. They won't accept to do the same for their free time project.

Good luck.
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« Reply #46 on: May 22, 2013, 02:39:48 PM »

being a manager is actually a good thing and the best artistic creations are generally brought to life by managers/designers who brought great talents together and gave coherence to their outputs , but to be a manager you must dispose of a lot of money to attract talents and also some means of coercicion to get them to do what you want and prevent them from leaving. Generally that implies being on the payroll of a corporation.
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« Reply #47 on: May 23, 2013, 02:23:09 AM »

Chromanoid. Sorry, no mmorpg here, just a sandbox game. I'm aiming for a week's time not a year.
MadWatch. You're right. Let the 99% of programmers do their thing, I only need to find remaining 1%.
Gimym. Notch made the game himself, he only hired others later on.

Yes, I'm taking shortcuts here - you want me to blame me for it? Be my guest.
I've already got some useful hints [thx Gimym for the list, nikki - craftstud.io]

As for the idea, the more I think about it the more freaking obvious it becomes. I just can't help thinking how simple & sexy it is :-)
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Evan Balster
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« Reply #48 on: May 23, 2013, 10:19:22 AM »

You can't evaluate the idea's quality until you execute it.  Even as an experienced game designer, thinking about an idea for too long before making it tends to produce extremely underwhelming results.  Invariably iteration is necessary.

For a week's worth of work, assuming an expert programmer, you can expect a voxel world and a first-person character capable of running, jumping, and perhaps destroying or placing blocks.  It won't be a game, and it will take weeks longer to make it a game.  With a novice programmer, you're talking the better part of a month before you even get to that point.  My basis for saying this is watching one of my very competent programmer friends start a minecraft-oid over the course of two weeks.  He was using Unity, which speeds things up, and he's a lot more experienced than anyone you're going to be able to hook up with.


Good game design isn't coming up with high-value ideas.  It's coming up with ideas which have a high ratio of value to difficulty of implementation.  Think smaller, and perhaps you'll be able to tackle bigger projects later.  Remember that anyone you choose to rely on is another chance for your project to fail.
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gimymblert
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« Reply #49 on: May 23, 2013, 10:34:44 AM »

If you are not so much a programmer, you might reduce the load by using existing engine, looking at existing tutorial to understand what's going on and look for some basic programming knowledge (basically branch, variable, loop and data structure are just enough to start).

For engine I will suggest you right away unity3D with C#; Spend sometimes familiarizing you with the syntax and overall structure, do some of the unity C# tutorial too, easy to find on the net. Javascript might look like better first, but i think it's best to take right habit right away.

Here are all the voxel style engine you can find for unity:
http://unitycoder.com/blog/2012/10/18/voxel-resources-engines-for-unity/

misc:
http://www.gamedev.net/blog/33/entry-2227887-more-on-minecraft-type-world-gen/
http://codeflow.org/entries/2010/dec/09/minecraft-like-rendering-experiments-in-opengl-4/


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« Reply #50 on: May 23, 2013, 11:42:50 AM »

Evan. The longer I think about it the more simplified the idea becomes, I have stripped it to bare minimum to start with. Of course later on it is all about iterations, assuming the project gains traction.

One week for MVP is maximum - game concept needs to be tested as soon as possible. This can only be achieved using existing code [with necessary changes], so I'm for anything that gets it done.
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Evan Balster
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« Reply #51 on: May 23, 2013, 10:02:50 PM »

Ah, but that's the killer -- a simple idea has no relation to a simple-to-implement idea.


As an example, let's take Minecraft and make all the blocks smaller so hills can roll a bit more smoothly.  Let's say, rather than one-meter, washing-machine-sized blocks, we use 25cm high blocks.  Okay, simple enough.

Turns out there's a very basic reason Minecraft is a machine hog -- 3D grids of data are BIG.  Even if you can crunch the data down to one byte per block, the equivalent of one 16x16x128-meter "minecraft chunk" is now composed of about 2,000,000 pieces -- 2 MB -- with some 6,000,000 relationships to be analyzed in order to generate the visible geometry.  The increased computational power involved in generation and rendering, memory required for gameplay, and disk bandwidth utilized in storing and retrieving this data is staggering, and some very fancy algorithms would be necessary to minimize these costs.

Game designers should understand programming, even when they aren't programming the games they design, for precisely this reason.  Understanding technical concepts -- which get much more subtle and multifaceted than in the example above -- is necessary for making viable game designs and effectively communicating with programmers about the implementation of those designs.
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« Reply #52 on: May 24, 2013, 01:31:19 AM »

Spot on. That's why I'm aiming at the most simplified MVP - there are so many traps alongside the way that not having a working product immediately would create such anxiety that would most likely kill the project straight away.

In this particular example [smaller blocks] BlockScape managed to make it work.
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« Reply #53 on: May 24, 2013, 01:52:07 PM »

Evan. The longer I think about it the more simplified the idea becomes, I have stripped it to bare minimum to start with. Of course later on it is all about iterations, assuming the project gains traction.

One week for MVP is maximum - game concept needs to be tested as soon as possible. This can only be achieved using existing code [with necessary changes], so I'm for anything that gets it done.

How feasible is it that you can get the code modified in one week? Have you talked to a programmer about this?
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« Reply #54 on: June 02, 2013, 10:32:50 PM »

I like voxel game and I have publish a game on a play market, but I am not good at modelling or texturing .
Do you have any simple game concept in mind to discuss about?
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« Reply #55 on: June 03, 2013, 01:17:04 AM »

I love this guy. Keep on going, rogger, you're great entertainment.
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