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[William Broom]

This is the thread for recording and quantifying our progress with the game, using milestones. When we achieve our first milestone, we will release the game for public consumption. Gainsworthy has made a good list of goals:

the goal for Version One Point Oh: We're Releasing it Now Edition should be:

+ 12 Characters
   -completely animated and... move-setted (I made up a word. So there)
   -fully functional
   -play-tested and properly balanced
+ 12 Stages
   -One for each character, I guess
   -Completely decorated in-style
   -Reasonably unique, not just graphical rehashes of one another
   -All special features functioning
+ Sexy Menu System

Means we won't wear out on things like AI or Single Player - focus on a good, solid multiplayer. I may love and eventually need single player, but all said and done, it's an extra.

It's up discussion though, if you think we should add more or less. Personally, I'd like to include items in v1.0 - let's say, 12 of them.

The important thing is that, once we've locked this milestone in place, all proper work should be directed at accomplishing this milestone. Anything above and beyond this milestone should be deferred until later. Discussion of things beyond the milestone is fine, of course.

[Oracle]

I think the milestone is a bit high, right now it seems like THE milestone (almost like a finished product).

I would like to see something like:

Milestone 1:
- X completed characters (say wich ones, and list the priority on them, what's needed, etc.)
- A stage

Milestone 2:

-Etc, etc.


I dont mean milestones in a sense of "when should we release it to public", but more of a way of us to organize, and setting up goals wich in the long run will help us actually finish up the game.

[William Broom]

Yeah, I do see what you mean, but I think it's good to have an ultimate goal to shoot for as well. Maybe we could do both? Yardstones and Milestones, perhaps?

[Rory]

I reckon 5 or 6 characters and 2 or 3 stages.
We could do 7 characters but we would need more spriters.

[Gainsworthy]

You're using my suggestion! Awww.

Well, this was for THE milestone. But, really, if we actually want Perfect World Edition to be the Final product, this milestone would only be a third in.

If we'd prefer the milestone Chutup suggested to be the Final product... well, we can take it easier, I suppose.

Regardless, a smaller Milestone to allow everone working on the project to look back and think "wow, we've come this far!" may be dilligent. Really depends what we mean by "Milestone" and "Final Product", I suppose.


BY THE BY: I will actually start helping in a few weeks, not just talking. Exams up the Proverbial Wazoo at the moment.

HOW COULD I FORGET: Guess I took it as a given, but Sound and Music must be added to the list.

[William Broom]

Possible Milestone List (not set in stone,obviously):

Milestone #1:
- Six characters fully coded, animated and with permission (CAP)
- Two stages CAP
Milestone #2:
- Ten characters CAP
- Six stages CAP
- Three of those stages with music
- Item placement system and two items (basically just to show that it works)
Milestone #3:
- Twelve characters CAP
- Eight stages CAP
- Six items
- Functional menu system including options to turn off items or stage hazards
This version will go out the Tigsource Feedback forum for more rigorous playtesting.
Milestone #4:
- Music for all eight stages
- Polished menu system/interface
- 12 items (remember, items will be very easy to do)
- Reasonably balanced gameplay
This version will be released publicly and constitute a finished product, but not the last version we will create.

After we release #4 we can think about #5 and up. How's that sound?

[Rory]

Sounds good. Nice work, chutup.

Milestone #1:
- Six characters fully coded, animated and with permission (CAP)
- Two stages CAP

We need more spriters! And they need less school!

Second stage - any ideas?

[William Broom]

I want to try doing a stage code-first, since Outer Wall was done art-first. My idea is one from Bonesaw with bomb blocks and cannons and stuff. Actually I think I'll create a thread for that right now.

EDIT: No, actually, I'll just post it in the Stage Design thread for now.

[Gainsworthy]

I wanna be finicky and say Milestone 4: 12 Stages, one for each. Be nicer that way.

Otherwise, it's good.

[Oracle]

Possible Milestone List (not set in stone,obviously):

Milestone #1:
- Six characters fully coded, animated and with permission (CAP)
- Two stages CAP
Milestone #2:
- Ten characters CAP
- Six stages CAP
- Three of those stages with music
- Item placement system and two items (basically just to show that it works)
Milestone #3:
- Twelve characters CAP
- Eight stages CAP
- Six items
- Functional menu system including options to turn off items or stage hazards
This version will go out the Tigsource Feedback forum for more rigorous playtesting.
Milestone #4:
- Music for all eight stages
- Polished menu system/interface
- 12 items (remember, items will be very easy to do)
- Reasonably balanced gameplay
This version will be released publicly and constitute a finished product, but not the last version we will create.

After we release #4 we can think about #5 and up. How's that sound?

I think the character number is a bit high on the first couple of milestones...we are talking full coded/animated characters here.

[William Broom]

Hmm, ok, how's this?

Milestone #1:
- 4 characters fully coded, animated and with permission (CAP)
- 2 stages CAP
Milestone #2:
- 6 characters CAP
- 6 stages CAP
- 3 of those stages with music
- Item placement system and 2 items (basically just to show that it works)
Milestone #3:
- 9 characters CAP
- 9 stages CAP
- 6 of those stages with music
- 6 items
Milestone #4:
- 12 characters CAP
- 12 stages CAP
- 8 of those stages with music
- 12 items (remember, items will be very easy to do)
- Functional menu system including options to turn off items or stage hazards
This version will go out the Tigsource Feedback forum for more rigorous playtesting.
Milestone #5:
- Music for all 12 stages
- Polished menu system/interface
- Reasonably balanced gameplay
This version will be released publicly and constitute a finished product, but not the last version we will create.

Added one more milestone in the middle, and more stages (I don't expect they'll take that much work anyway). This way the milestones come easier at the beginning but ramp up a bit toward the end.

[Laremere]

I think that capping a category is not the best idea, but just having them as the most important things for people to emphasize on.  I think this because people can get started on stuff from the next Milestone when they can't really help out with what is left for the current one.  For instance, one character may just need to have animation finished before the milestone is complete, so why would people stop everything else to wait?  I think it is also feasible for some things like music and items to possibly have a little work on them if so desired before the milestones that have them in it.

[William Broom]

I think the idea would be that you only work on things within the current milestone unless there is nothing else left to work on, for you. So if all the characters were coded, but not animated, I might start coding another one, since I can't do sprites. But nobody would start to animate that character until the current milestone was reached.

[Oracle]

Good job Chutup 

[Laremere]

I think the idea would be that you only work on things within the current milestone unless there is nothing else left to work on, for you. So if all the characters were coded, but not animated, I might start coding another one, since I can't do sprites. But nobody would start to animate that character until the current milestone was reached.

Ah, ok, thanks for the clarification 

[Soulliard]

Just pointing out that there's a new demo up. Someone should try it out. It's really cool. 

[Rostiger]

Just found this again an wanted to add my ideas and detail it out a little bit.

Legend:
C ... Coded
A ... Animated
P ... Permitted


Milestone #1

• 3 characters CAP (Naija, Golden Knight, Nikujin)
• 4 characters CP (Dwarf, Turner, Trilby, Liero)
• 1 stage CAP (Golden Knight)
• 2 soundtracks CP (Golden Knight, Aquaria)
• Basic main menu
  with Stage and Character Selection
• Menu System Layout
  The main menu concept should be layed out and first mockups should be made.
• Interface mockups
  A graphical layout of the in-game interface including all elements for the planned game modes.

Milestone #2

• add 3 characters A (Liero,Dwarf,Turner)
• add 1 characters CP (Xoda)
• add 3 stages (Naija,?,?)
• add 2 soundtracks (?,?)
• add item placement system
  and 2 items (basically just to show that it works)
• add basic set of sound effects
  Hits, Explosions, Alarms, etc
• Main menu upgrade
  Texture fonts are utilized, Basic graphical layout implemented
• Milestone #3 update

Milestone #3

• add 2 characters A (Trilby,Xoda)
• add 1 characters CP (?)
• add 1 stage (?)
• add 2 soundtracks (Main Menu,?)
• add 4 items (?,?,?,?)
• add 2 gameplay modes (Time Mode, Frag Mode)
• Mostly functional main menu
  All main menu items, gameplay mode selection
• Interface implemented
  The game should give feedback on events like winning, quitting the match, etc.
  Also game mode specific displays should be implemented
• Milestone #4 update

Milestone #4

This version will go out the Tigsource Feedback forum for more rigorous playtesting.

• add 2 characters (?,?)
• add 5 stage (?,?,?,?,?)
• add 5 soundtrack (?,?,?,?,?)
• add 6 items (?,?,?,?,?,?)
• Sound Effects
  It would be good to have most of the sound effects implemented at this point.
• Fully functional menu system
  Options, key configuration, help screen, credits, etc.

Milestone #5

This version will be released publicly and constitute a finished product, but not the last version we will create.

• Music for all stages
• Polished menu system/interface
• Reasonably balanced gameplay

If you have any more ideas let me know - I'll try to keep the list updated.
Also it probably would be good to have this in the design document, too.

[Soulliard]

Two major criticisms-
1) Stages don't have to correspond to characters. In fact, it would probably be better if they didn't. There are so many great indie games that not all of them can get characters. Adding stages based on other games, like Knytt, Clean Asia and Samarost, will give us a way to feature these games which would otherwise be overlooked. Plus, not all characters will have interesting stages. A Liero or Lugaru stage would probably not be nearly as interesting as a number of others.

2) Music should generally correspond with the stages (with the exception of menu music).

[William Broom]

I agree with Nightshade on the character <=> stage thing. For example, Nikujin, Liero, Akuji and Turner are all characters who seem to have less potential for an interesting stage. I'm not saying we shouldn't ever do stages for them but we should weigh each stage on its own merits rather than sticking to a strict formula.

Incidentally, we should also think about having a bit of balance in the stages - some small, some large, some complex and some vanilla.

[Rostiger]

Yeah, you have a valid point with the stage thing. I just tried to make the milestone goals a bit more precise, but of course stages could be exchanged.
Also for the characters I just went through the forums posts to see what was decided on who to do next.

Oh, btw, I think giving the MS3 build to the feedback forums, it would be good to take out quote and the Outer Wall temporarily, except if they have been permitted of course.