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[Moth]

I am a big fan of using different sounds to convey differences in speakers' voices. I think it's best to keep each "voice" to a single noise rather than multiple* so that it's a uniform-pitched purr. Also, obviously it can be pretty grating if the sound plays for every single letter. I like to randomly pick between 2 and 3 character intervals to play the sound at, it sounds nicely paced and deliberate.

* Animal Crossing is an exception. Banjo Kazooie's multiple voice clips are okay for that game but if it were applied to, say, a visual novel, I'm sure it would drive me up a wall. I watched that Henry Hatsworth video and it just about drove me insane, haha.

[quan]

Not sure if Earthbound and Mother 3 did much of the stuff you mentioned but the writing was so funny and interesting that I actually wanted to talk to NPCs.

[Bree]

This is a tangent, but one thing I think is criminally underused is flavor text in battles. Earthbound stands out for me because of how fun the writing is compared to other RPGs- instead of getting poisoned, a character "feels homesick" or gets a sunburn. Another great example is Pokemon X/Y, where raising a Pokemon's affection level not only provides in-game benefits, but they're wrapped up in cute sentences like "x didn't want to disappoint you!" and "x looks like it's about to cry!" Really memorable stuff.

[Alder]

:D
other games that did this well:

golden sun:
-dramatic pauses, wavery text, warble sound for voices... actually, it did all the things you listed

Golden Sun always did this outstandingly, I always got a really great impression of tone of voice, cadence and emotion despite not a word being spoken. It's a great example of efficiently getting across story and characterisation imo.

[Reggie]

Do you know whose bones are on display here? The answer is... your bones. My bones. Bone's bones. Bone bone bone.

[framk]

Not sure if Earthbound and Mother 3 did much of the stuff you mentioned but the writing was so funny and interesting that I actually wanted to talk to NPCs.

I think this is something we need to focus on. We can't have animation or sound try to compensate for terrible dialogue. If the writing is terrible it doesn't matter how much you juice up the presentation, it ultimately falls flat.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

that is true but besides the point and a given; there are already a bunch of other topics in this subforum about writing quality and various aspects of how to improve your writing (and if you want to discuss that you can discuss that there)

it's basically like going into a 'how to improve the graphics of your game' thread and saying 'GRAPHICS DON'T MATTER GAMEPLAY DOES'

also, as an aside, earthbound did use a lot of the techniques mentioned in my first post. it used alternate fonts for the mr. saturns, for example. it made heavy uses of delays at particular points in a textbox (a really important and underused technique; notice how there's a big delay after periods, dashes, commas, and ellipses in a textbox in that game). it also used a speech-like beeping sound effect, occasionally large text (SLAAAAAAAM), and so on. so yes, earthbound's writing is good, but these textbox effects enhanced it greatly. it probably wouldn't have been as effective if it were the same exact writing and didn't use any of that stuff

[ortoslon]

modern textboxes could learn from books re: font, line length and leading. don't make me read three-word lines in an aliased/monospaced font for hours

[Cevo70]

Related topic.  Anyone have a favorite way they've seen player/character thought portrayed on screen/box?

AKA, what's a good way to show that a character is thinking something rather than saying it?

I've always thought that seeing a [main] character's thoughts can really help plot/development.  But doing it well graphically is tricky.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

you can simply use italics or parenthesis for that. it works fairly well. ff8 did that to a significant degree with squall.

[Glyph]

All the Phoenix Wright games have dynamic text -- of course, they're basically visual novels so that's to be expected. One thing that I like that I would append to the list is auto-advancing text, where the textbox advances to the next line of dialog without waiting for you to hit A (or whatever). This is good when people are talking incoherently or rambling.

As for showing thinking in textboxes, the PW series' answer is to have the thought text in blue and parenthetical. Also the thinking character will sometimes put on a 'pondering' face while thinking.

[Cevo70]

you can simply use italics or parenthesis for that. it works fairly well. ff8 did that to a significant degree with squall.

Agreed.  To your original point though, how could we do it better?

Graphically, I was thinking a good way to portray thought on screen would be cloud-like text box, maybe aligned north of a character portrait, instead of out in front/to the right.   Could also use semi-transparent/fluffier text or a lighter font.

I was also thinking it might be cool if NPCs showed though because the main character could read minds - that little hook might get old fast though.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

well, make sure that what you do doesn't interfere with readability of course, i think that's the most important thing; fluffier text may be harder to read

another possibility is something kartia did, which doesn't involve the textbox at all, but stuff outside of the textbox. when the characters are talking, keep the game at normal brightness levels. however, when a character is talking *internally*, besides putting it in italics, you could *also* darken the rest of the world, outside of the textbox. that gives the impression that it's an internal private thing

[davemakes]

Earthbound actually has an INSANE scripting system for its text boxes. Like, crazy beyond all reason. From the article:

"In fact, using a simple hack Rufus made a while back to allow the scripting system to access any memory address, it would theoretically be possible to write an emulator just using EarthBound’s text system. If you were crazy enough, you could get EarthBound to emulate the EarthBound Zero ROM, or even EarthBound itself!"

[Cevo70]

well, make sure that what you do doesn't interfere with readability of course, i think that's the most important thing; fluffier text may be harder to read

Yeah good call.  And too many boxes popping up might be more of a distraction.

another possibility is something kartia did, which doesn't involve the textbox at all, but stuff outside of the textbox. when the characters are talking, keep the game at normal brightness levels. however, when a character is talking *internally*, besides putting it in italics, you could *also* darken the rest of the world, outside of the textbox. that gives the impression that it's an internal private thing

Yes that's good path to go down.  Rather than making the screen busier, just change the atmosphere of the conversation.  Probably could be done with various filters or lighting like you said.  Cool.

Quote
"In fact, using a simple hack Rufus made a while back to allow the scripting system to access any memory address, it would theoretically be possible to write an emulator just using EarthBound’s text system. If you were crazy enough, you could get EarthBound to emulate the EarthBound Zero ROM, or even EarthBound itself!"

That's nuts.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

that's a good find regarding earthbound. people earlier were saying, oh, don't care about this stuff, think of earthbound, and just make your writing good. the answer to that is:

[GOSUB C69082][FLAGON 00B][1F 41 05][1F EB 03 06][1F 15 03 00 0E 01 01][1F 61][1F E7 03 00][1F F3 03 00 03][DELAY 3C][1F F4 03][LINE][OPENWIN 01]@Ah![DELAY 14] Here’s the problem, and it’s not too tough to fix.[PAUSE][LINE]@Hang on for a second or two1F EA 03 00][1F 61][1F 00 00 B3][1F F1 E2 01 10 01][1F 61][1F E6 E2 01][1F 07 02][DELAY 3C][1F 03][OPENWIN 01]@There![PAUSE][LINE]@That should do it![PAUSE][LINE]@Now, if [GOSUB C91FBA] board,[DELAY 0F] the Sky Runner will take [GOSUB C91FDB][PAUSE][LINE]@back to Winters.[PAUSE][LINE]@With Dr. Andonuts’ help,[DELAY 0F] I can modify the machine to fly to Summers.[PAUSE][LINE]@…If Dad, I mean Dr. Andonuts,[PAUSE][LINE]@is not available, I’ll have to figure it out by myself.[PAUSE][LINE]@Anyway, let’s go back to the lab in Winters.[PAUSE][LINE]@…That’s itPAUSE][CLOSEALLWIN][1F 15 6A 00 0F 01 01][DELAY 01][1F EF 6A 00][1F E8 FF][1F 61][1F EB FF 06][FLAGON 28F][GOSUB C7DD7D][1F ED][1F E5 FF][1F E9 E2 01][1F 61][DELAY 0F][1F 1E E0 01 06][DELAY 5A][1F 15 D1 00 A2 00 FF][1F 15 E6 00 A5 00 FF][1F 21 C2][1F EF E6 00][1F E8 FF][DELAY 01][1F 61][1F ED][1F 15 D1 00 96 00 FF][1F 21 BB][1F EF D1 00][1F 61][1F ED][1F 15 D1 00 9E 00 FF][1F 15 E6 00 A0 00 FF][1F 21 C0][1F EF E6 00][1F 61][1F ED][1F 15 D1 00 97 00 FF][1F 21 BB][1F EF D1 00][1F 61][1F ED][1F 15 D1 00 9A 00 FF][1F 15 E6 00 9C 00 FF][1F 21 BE][1F EF E6 00][1F 61][1F ED][1F 15 D1 00 98 00 FF][1F 21 BB][1F EF D1 00][1F 61][1F ED][1F 15 D1 00 A6 00 FF][1F 21 BA][1F EF D1 00][1F 61][1F ED][FLAGON 26D][1F 21 DA][1F 17 6F 02 A7 00 01][DELAY 64][1F 17 6D 02 A8 00 01][1F 61][FLAGOFF 28F][GOSUB C7DD7D][1F 15 6A 00 A9 00 01][DELAY 01][1F EF 6A 00][1F EC FF 01][1F 61][1F ED][1F E5 FF][1F F1 69 02 8D 00][1F 61][1F E6 67 02][1F E6 69 02][1F E6 6A 02][GOSUB C6CB97][1F F1 6A 02 8E 00][1F 61][1F E6 6A 02][GOSUB C6CC31][1F F1 6A 02 90 00][1F 61][1F F1 69 02 8F 00][1F 61][19 26 06][FLAGOFF 26D][FLAGOFF 2EC][FLAGOFF 030][FLAGOFF 305][FLAGON 276][FLAGOFF 00B][1F 41 06][1F E8 FF][END]

from what i can understand from the above, it appears as if each delay in each textbox of earthbound is individually coded, with a precise delay duration carefully chosen, except for the general-purpose [PAUSE] which seems to be a shorthand for a specific duration that is often used

[jiitype]

Dayumm that's crazy. Must be fun writing all that stuff...

[Alevice]

Given all those hardware pointers, i wouldnt be surprised if the text system and the "cinematic" system were the one and the same. Notice that fuckload of pointers, most of which probably link to an execution script.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

yeah there is a gosub in there too. i imagine that a lot of that code is for stuff like shaking the screen