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TIGSource ForumsCommunityDevLogsThe Coral Cave - a watercolor point & click set in Okinawa
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Author Topic: The Coral Cave - a watercolor point & click set in Okinawa  (Read 17482 times)
moi
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« Reply #40 on: June 08, 2013, 07:15:50 AM »

thanks god everybody is not a sycophant around here, I'm just trying to help
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« Reply #41 on: June 08, 2013, 07:27:01 AM »

Good one...?

I work in animation, and the issue of racism in character design comes up sometimes. The people that bring it up only do so because theyre uneducated about what is and what isnt actual racist imagry, & thus cast a huge net over EVERY cartoon character that they think is racist. Its a HUGE deal to be labeled a racist just because youre trying to capture life ina design with nothing but good intentions. So it affects me personally and is just irritating.

So your passive aggressive sycophant remark dosnt really apply here, but nice try anyway.
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YellowLime
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« Reply #42 on: June 08, 2013, 08:38:36 AM »

Its just such a stupid thing to even mention
Not really though. He acknowledges the team is not racist(in his 3rd post), and is polite.

Maybe he's not used to a character whose eyes look closed the entire time, which has been done in anime from time to time, especially goofy ones.
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siskavard
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« Reply #43 on: June 08, 2013, 09:05:54 AM »

Its just such a stupid thing to even mention
Not really though. He acknowledges the team is not racist(in his 3rd post), and is polite.

Maybe he's not used to a character whose eyes look closed the entire time, which has been done in anime from time to time, especially goofy ones.

Ya, I get it. Sorry, I was being a bit aggressive there in my response. It's just something that bugs me is all. No hard feelings hopefully.


Meanwhile, here is a rought animation test:

Wow, it's really awesome. I like background image, it looks like the works of Hayao Miyazaki

This looks really cute, though I think you should consider putting a bend in her foot at the toes, as its a bit stiff and weightless right now.
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« Reply #44 on: June 08, 2013, 09:26:26 AM »

Do you already have someone making music for this game?
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« Reply #45 on: June 08, 2013, 10:38:56 AM »

the way the eyes are drawn makes the character look a bit like a racist stereotype of a japanese, it's just what I feel, but it's just, like, my opinion man

that's totally how some people look. I mean, I have family that totally looks like that, especially at the beach because it's all sunny and stuff
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Atelier Sentô
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« Reply #46 on: June 09, 2013, 02:02:19 AM »

I know that it's not on purpose, Siskavard. Obviously they wouldn't have made the trip to okinawa and made all the game about it if they were racist.
I'm just saying that the devs might hear that comment and they should be ready to deal with it, becausde the caricature differs from all the japanese caricatures that have been made since after ww2.
Thank you Moi,
It's totally unexpected: in France, we don't know those caricatures from WW2 so it's difficult for us to figure out where exactly is the problem.
You're right: we should be ready to deal with it in the future.
But, obviously, we won't have the strength to deal with it: it would hurt our hearts so deeply!
So it's better if we solve it right now.

It's a problem with the eyes shut, isn't it?
Is it better this way:

Does it wipe out all the ambiguity?
If not, can you give us clues to do that?

We would be very grateful if you could help us.

Do you already have someone making music for this game?
Yes, Cecile is in charge of the music. Thank you for asking.
I've updated the first post. So now, everybody can check who does what.

This looks really cute, though I think you should consider putting a bend in her foot at the toes, as its a bit stiff and weightless right now.
Ok! thank for your advise. Because we are amateur, it's important for us to have feedback from professional animators!
This animation is already cleaned and colored now so we won't correct it immediately.
But we note your feedback and, later, we'll probably change the frames that need to be improved.

Thank you everyone for your comments. We are receiving a lot of feedback and help here!
« Last Edit: June 09, 2013, 04:59:37 AM by Atelier Sentô » Logged
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« Reply #47 on: June 09, 2013, 03:58:39 AM »

I think moi wants it to look like this:


I wouldn't go changing things because of one random nutter.
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« Reply #48 on: June 09, 2013, 04:34:42 AM »

...racism toward Japanese people does not exist in France...

That seems incredibly unlikely Cheesy Cheesy unless you yourself is japanese and have been literally everywhere in the country  Huh?
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Impmaster
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« Reply #49 on: June 09, 2013, 04:42:22 AM »

Yeah, I like it how it is right now. It's not really a stereotype, it's just how japanese are depicted in french comics. As long as there isn't any racism, like jokes at the expense of the character, it shouldn't really matter.
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Atelier Sentô
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« Reply #50 on: June 09, 2013, 04:51:57 AM »

That seems incredibly unlikely Cheesy Cheesy unless you yourself is japanese and have been literally everywhere in the country  Huh?
You're totally right, the fact we never heard about racism toward Japanese in France doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Sorry, we have difficulties to express ourselves in english.
What we wanted to say is:
We don't know the "goofy animes" featuring the "racist stereotype" you are speaking about. So please point out where is the problem on our design.

We have edited our previous post because it appeared to be unclear. Hope you don't mind!
Thank you for your message!
« Last Edit: June 09, 2013, 05:01:19 AM by Atelier Sentô » Logged
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« Reply #51 on: June 09, 2013, 05:42:14 AM »

This looks wonderful! Colors are so warm Smiley

It's possible that the "racist"thing may come up, but I think you should just ignore that, those lines capture well that kind of fisionomy and changing it (like you did in your last pic) change dramatically the expression and the very sense of the image.
Keep up the good work, if it's done with respect and love for those places and people it will shows in the game.

bye!
gabriele
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moi
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« Reply #52 on: June 09, 2013, 05:42:38 AM »

I think moi wants it to look like this:


I wouldn't go changing things because of one random nutter.
it's starting to look good, almost there, also: the character should be a little boy and the setting should be in 19th century england
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moi
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« Reply #53 on: June 09, 2013, 05:48:28 AM »

I know that it's not on purpose, Siskavard. Obviously they wouldn't have made the trip to okinawa and made all the game about it if they were racist.
I'm just saying that the devs might hear that comment and they should be ready to deal with it, becausde the caricature differs from all the japanese caricatures that have been made since after ww2.
Thank you Moi,
It's totally unexpected: in France, we don't know those caricatures from WW2 so it's difficult for us to figure out where exactly is the problem.
You're right: we should be ready to deal with it in the future.
But, obviously, we won't have the strength to deal with it: it would hurt our hearts so deeply!
So it's better if we solve it right now.

It's a problem with the eyes shut, isn't it?
Is it better this way:

Does it wipe out all the ambiguity?
If not, can you give us clues to do that?

We would be very grateful if you could help us.


It's not really such a big problem, and you can probably leave the character as it is, it's just that it looks extreemely caricatural and this could be interpreted as a racist stereotype, so I wanted to bring the issue to your attention. But you can probably leave it like that I'm sure the gmae is not offensive, I just wanted to bring it up here and now, while we are in the bowels of the game.

The edit you made is better IMO, but you are the final judge, I don't want to influence your game because the art looks very good already.
If you have the occasion , you should ask around the internet to people of varying nationalities what they think about this question.
The game will probably get some attention in the future so you'll have the occasion
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Atelier Sentô
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« Reply #54 on: June 09, 2013, 06:55:28 AM »

Moi :
Thank you for your kind answer.
The original drawings for the sprite character are really small. The entire head is about 1.5 centimeter width. So it's a little bit difficult to give her detailed eyes.
But she will have more detailed eyes during the cut-scenes and on the poster art.

We decided this "thin eyes" design from life (we met kids like that during our travels and we loved their faces) and from many Japanese works of art like : traditional woodblock prints and paintings, from modern illustrators like Kazuo Oga, video game design (we are fond of Okami...)

It's the reason why we were so surprised by your observation.
Now, we're aware!
We'll be very cautious during our coming work on the game.

This looks wonderful! Colors are so warm Smiley

It's possible that the "racist"thing may come up, but I think you should just ignore that, those lines capture well that kind of fisionomy and changing it (like you did in your last pic) change dramatically the expression and the very sense of the image.
Keep up the good work, if it's done with respect and love for those places and people it will shows in the game.
We hope so too.
Thank you for your warm answer!

Now, if everybody agrees, let's close this debate for now.
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JLJac
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« Reply #55 on: June 09, 2013, 12:29:32 PM »

That seems incredibly unlikely Cheesy Cheesy unless you yourself is japanese and have been literally everywhere in the country  Huh?
You're totally right, the fact we never heard about racism toward Japanese in France doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Sorry, we have difficulties to express ourselves in english.
What we wanted to say is:
We don't know the "goofy animes" featuring the "racist stereotype" you are speaking about. So please point out where is the problem on our design.

We have edited our previous post because it appeared to be unclear. Hope you don't mind!
Thank you for your message!

You seem to be mature about this, and I think you'll find a good solution. It's alway incredibly difficult to make cartoon renderings of racial differences and staying on the right side of the charicature line - but I think that as long as you keep in mind to portray a character, not a race, you'll succeed. Being affectionate towards one's characters rather than cynical also tends to help.

Also I want to say that I love the art for this project! You've really captured the sunlight, the details, and it brings back memories of being a kid on the beach. I'm looking forward to see where you take this.
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« Reply #56 on: September 09, 2013, 10:03:58 AM »

This looks gorgeous! Best of luck with the project.
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« Reply #57 on: September 09, 2013, 10:48:08 AM »

Hello everybody,
We've spent part of the summer polishing the first scene of the game so we are now able to show you a gameplay video of the Coral Cave.


You can watch it here on youtube:



Capturing the video wasn't an easy task because our computer isn't really powerful...
And the video isn't as smooth as we would like.
But it should be enough to give you a first glance of the game in motion.

We hope you'll like it!

PS: Many thanks to Kino and Koyu, the little girls who sing at the end of the video.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 11:00:22 AM by Atelier Sentô » Logged
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« Reply #58 on: September 09, 2013, 11:01:42 AM »

Beautiful Grin
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« Reply #59 on: September 09, 2013, 11:32:37 AM »

Oh hey wow this is so pretty!
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