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TIGSource ForumsPlayerGeneralwho would you go with?
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fish
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« on: July 13, 2007, 12:34:46 PM »

alright, imagine that you are a successful asian indie developers with an awesome game thats getting a lot of attention.
close your eyes and IMAGINE.

now you win something at IGF or what have you, and now you have all 3 platform holders, steam and gametap begging you to let them publish your game.
they all deman exclusivity and they're all making similar offers.

who do you go with?
and why?

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Inane
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« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2007, 12:53:13 PM »

None, they all suck! :D

But in all seriousness, either XBLA or the Wii thing. Although I hear Sony is being really good to indies, I really do dislike that heartless hunk of metal and plastic they call a console.
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« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2007, 01:19:23 PM »

well, if its a Japanese developer, it would probably make sense to stick with Sony because of the penetration of the ps3 in that country.

Otherwise, XBLA makes the most sense. First, the 360 controller is the best in the biz. Dual analogs are perfect for all kinds of games. The wiimote is fine but it's still a work in progress and dependent on the game that you're making, it might not really mesh.

Second, Live is unmatched at this time, hands down. It is the best online console experience and now that it is tied into Windows, there are just too many opportunities to ignore.

I have to also imagine porting a pc game to the 360 is easier than moving it to ps3. That's based entirely on conjecture, mind you.

Another piece of opinion, but I don't see the ps3 audience really ever grabbing onto the indie game scene, at least not like people have with the 360. Maybe it's the whole $600+ for a console thing or maybe I just don't trust Sony in terms of supporting indie devs through the life of the system. I see Sony more as a company trying to push their hdtv's, blu-ray, and other bigger, shiny things with the ps3.

Lastly, I own a 360 and the more great XBLA games, the better  :D
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« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2007, 02:09:21 PM »

Dude , you create your own console.

The AQUARIUS 2600!
It has 8k memory and 160x192 resolution.(except for Aquaria where it will run in full 1024x768)
It only plays indie games.
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« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2007, 02:34:01 PM »

well, if its a Japanese developer, it would probably make sense to stick with Sony because of the penetration of the ps3 in that country.

I thought the Wii "penetrated" the market more deeply than PS3 so far, but alas, I might be wrong...

As for the thread, well, I dunno, I think if that happens I'll be un-indied and go for broke with the most juicy offer. Hey, at least I'm not making "Big Kahuna Reef" to get my monies.
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« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2007, 03:01:50 PM »

well, if its a Japanese developer, it would probably make sense to stick with Sony because of the penetration of the ps3 in that country.

I thought the Wii "penetrated" the market more deeply than PS3 so far, but alas, I might be wrong...

The Wii has taken the PS3 5:1 or 6:1 in weekly sales in Japan.  For the week of July 2nd to July 8th, the Wii sold 75,279 units to the PS3's 12,691, so I'd say its a safe bet to say that the Wii has a better penetration (teehee) than the PS3 right now.
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« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2007, 03:18:30 PM »

FACTS:
The Wii is the biggest next gen console in Japan.
The XBox 360 is pretty much nonexistant over there.
The console indie game market is not as well known as the PC game market.

If you were to release a game like Aquaria, it'd obviously be best to release it on something like Steam, which for all I know, does not force exclusivity. A great asset of indie development is that you aren't dependent on anything.
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« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2007, 05:35:50 PM »

The Wii has taken the PS3 5:1 or 6:1 in weekly sales in Japan.  For the week of July 2nd to July 8th, the Wii sold 75,279 units to the PS3's 12,691, so I'd say its a safe bet to say that the Wii has a better penetration (teehee) than the PS3 right now.

right now, being the key. When they release MGS and all the other big exclusive games, you can bet those ratios will even out somewhat. Not so sure about elsewhere tho.

And while Steam is a great alternative, you're excluding all the console gamers who are otherwise unaware of the PC indie market. Might as well hit as many people as you can, right?
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« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2007, 05:48:57 PM »

the penetration of the ps3 in that country.

I hope there was vaseline involved at least.
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« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2007, 06:26:29 PM »

The Wii has taken the PS3 5:1 or 6:1 in weekly sales in Japan.  For the week of July 2nd to July 8th, the Wii sold 75,279 units to the PS3's 12,691, so I'd say its a safe bet to say that the Wii has a better penetration (teehee) than the PS3 right now.

right now, being the key. When they release MGS and all the other big exclusive games, you can bet those ratios will even out somewhat. Not so sure about elsewhere tho.

And while Steam is a great alternative, you're excluding all the console gamers who are otherwise unaware of the PC indie market. Might as well hit as many people as you can, right?

You have no idea how the market works, do you?

Right now the biggest system in the world is the DS. The Wii is strongly favored in Japan, and the XBox 360 in the US's traditional markets. The demographics in Japan are widening, which means more open markets. The US is still a niche territory selling mostly "hardcore" games. The Wii is, as Wall Street is proving, being watched heavily in the West. Casual games are about to explode, it's just a matter of who is going to do it...

The PS3 is not selling well anywhere except Australia where their toilets even flush the wrong way.

What's really unfortunate for the PS3 is that their stable of exclusives is either getting tired or moving onto other systems. MGS4 and Final Fantasy are not as big system sellers as you might think. Dragon Quest has already been manhandled away from Sony, and from there pretty much goes Japan. MGS4 and FF are more international properties that either don't have console moving legs or have been losing steam. Grand Theft Auto is on the 360.

I think the only benefit for putting an indie game on the PS3 is Sony's goal of being uber-hip. That's always been their thing. They sell hip electronics for premium prices. They love the artsy fartsy bullshit. It's fucking cool. And they'll treat a cool indie developer well. Outside of that, they're on par-ish with the 360.
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« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2007, 06:53:20 PM »

You have no idea how the market works, do you?

Right now the biggest system in the world is the DS. The Wii is strongly favored in Japan, and the XBox 360 in the US's traditional markets. The demographics in Japan are widening, which means more open markets. The US is still a niche territory selling mostly "hardcore" games. The Wii is, as Wall Street is proving, being watched heavily in the West. Casual games are about to explode, it's just a matter of who is going to do it...

The PS3 is not selling well anywhere except Australia where their toilets even flush the wrong way.

What's really unfortunate for the PS3 is that their stable of exclusives is either getting tired or moving onto other systems. MGS4 and Final Fantasy are not as big system sellers as you might think. Dragon Quest has already been manhandled away from Sony, and from there pretty much goes Japan. MGS4 and FF are more international properties that either don't have console moving legs or have been losing steam. Grand Theft Auto is on the 360.

I think the only benefit for putting an indie game on the PS3 is Sony's goal of being uber-hip. That's always been their thing. They sell hip electronics for premium prices. They love the artsy fartsy bullshit. It's fucking cool. And they'll treat a cool indie developer well. Outside of that, they're on par-ish with the 360.

ok, so circling back to my original point, I agree that the ps3 would not be the wise choice for an indie dev to sign exclusivity with, for various reasons.

My argument about upcoming games is, that in Japan, where the ps3 will most likely have the strongest foothold (in terms of ps3 sales) odds are sales will begin to increase when there are more worthwhile games to buy (MGS was merely an example).

I'm not sure what your point about the DS was, but in regards to the Wii, I think the low price point makes it feasible for people to eventually buy a second system, such as the 360 or PS3. And since the 360 is transparent in Japan, I would guess gamers there would lean towards the PS3.

oh, and penetration
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« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2007, 07:02:25 PM »

In short: the PS3 is not going to be much of a hit, anywhere.
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Alex May
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« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2007, 12:09:51 AM »

FWIW, as a consumer, Sony sold me a PS3 this E3 with videos of Ratchet and Clank, and Little Big Planet. As a professional there's no other choice than Nintendo though. Shame my asshole producer doesn't agree, whilst he rubbishes my design in front of my face down the pub.
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« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2007, 01:49:21 AM »

Sounds like you need a new producer.  But we'll (wii'll?) see if WiiWare works out.  Traditionally, 3rd party retail games on non portable Nintendo consoles don't do that well.
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« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2007, 04:18:21 AM »

I would choose the wii because it still has heaps of potential and with the thousand controller combinations lots of games would work on it. It might even come down to personal preference as a game developer though. its interesting to see how wiiware will work out.
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« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2007, 10:16:57 AM »

alright, imagine that you are a successful asian indie developers with an awesome game thats getting a lot of attention.
close your eyes and IMAGINE.

now you win something at IGF or what have you, and now you have all 3 platform holders, steam and gametap begging you to let them publish your game.
they all deman exclusivity and they're all making similar offers.

who do you go with?
and why?
To answer the original question , in a case like this you simply don't offer exclusivity.
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« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2007, 10:30:51 AM »

Sounds like you need a new producer.
It actually sounds more like you need a burlap sack, some lye and a sledgehammer.
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« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2007, 10:44:54 AM »

I would choose the wii because it still has heaps of potential and with the thousand controller combinations lots of games would work on it. It might even come down to personal preference as a game developer though. its interesting to see how wiiware will work out.

In regards to the original question tho, I assume he was talking about a game that is already finished, right?

I agree with people's sentiments that Nintendo's offering has a lot of potential, but I'm taking it with a huge grain of salt until there's some actual content available Smiley
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« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2007, 01:39:14 PM »

I don't have any of these systems, and in fact haven't even ever physically seen any of these systems, so I can't decide.
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« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2007, 07:50:49 AM »

Sounds like you need a new producer.
It actually sounds more like you need a burlap sack, some lye and a sledgehammer.

Well, I'm still open to the possibility of a misunderstanding, and of course his subsequent unpleasantness was clearly fuelled by my obvious anger at his pathetic scoffing of the idea of a gardening game on the Wii. And we were drunk, so that goes a little way towards explaining things  :D
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