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[GregWS]

EDIT: what I'm talking about doing is making a program that could be used to make pixel art films.

So while listening to some chiptunes the other day I realized that it would be really really awesome if there were some sort of amateur "movie maker" to create little low-res films (eg. music videos for awesome chiptunes, or cutscenes for low-res games).  I'm thinking the maximum selectable resolution would be 320 x 320, and both width and height could be any size smaller (I'm pretty open to suggestions about this though).

I'm way too busy to work on this now (December is probably the earliest I could start), but I do generally think it would be doable in GM (I'm not too sure about the actual video capture, but as long as it could play the films then some other program could be used for the actual recording).

I guess my vision for it would be something that's super user-friendly and enjoyable to use, without too many arbitrary limitations (I know, these last two are sort of contradictory).

So if anyone has any idea/suggestions for this project then please post them, so that when I get around to actually trying to make it I know what people want.  What would you like to see in a program like this?

Oh, and if anyone would be interesting in teaming up to make this, or even making this into a community project that isn't Indie Brawl, that would be awesome too!

[muku]

Have you looked into Processing? I don't see many people doing low-res stuff with it, but it can't hurt to check it out.

[GregWS]

Processing is amazing.  Jon Mak mentioned it at some point in an interview I think, and I was very impressed when I checked it out.  I haven't programmed for real in years, but it doesn't look too bad at all; I intend to give it a try when I've got some free time.

What I was talking about was creating a program specifically for the purpose of creating pixel art films/videos.  Sort of like that really awful 3D Movie Maker program that was in Windows 95, except classy and pixel art based.  The first post has been edited accordingly to get this point across.

[Farbs]

I like the concept, but I'm finding it hard to imagine an intuitive and productive interface for it. Honestly, I'd rather just hardcode a movie than build it in an editor.

[increpare]

I like the concept, but I'm finding it hard to imagine an intuitive and productive interface for it.

Something like a lowres MSpaint with a timeline, and customizable palette might do pretty well.  Wouldn't necessarily need anything other than a pencil (it is pixel art after all...)...an option to clone frames...gif/whatever export...customize palette...not crash for big files...set framerate... maybe?  The appeal (and utility) would be in the simplicity as much as anything, I'd guess.

[agj]

There might already be some software out there that fits the bill. We'd have to ask

,

,

and whomever makes YMCK's videos what they use. Shylona used Deluxe Paint, at least.

[isaac]

I'm pretty sure Paul Roberson just does his pixelart in Photoshop, and sticks it together in Flash.

I think you'll find that most people doing large pixel art animations will use Photoshop in combination with either Flash or After Effects, since you get the best tools for animation, masking, color correction and all the other useful toys.

[Powergloved Andy]

pixel animation isn't that hard to do in a standard movie maker though... I don't really understand the point of having an editor. I mean it's a good idea, in theory, but it seems sort of... useless?

[GregWS]

I think you're all missing my idea (because I did a bad job of explaining it).

I'm not thinking of just a frame editor, I'm more thinking of a system in which there are things like "scenes" "backgrounds" and "actors."  Something far more streamlined than individual frame editing (which I hate the idea of).

A scene could be bigger than what the camera shows in it, and there could be a "viewport" of sorts.  In a scene there would be a background, probably loaded from an external file.  There would also be animations for the characters; they'd be independent from their background like objects in GM.  In any given scene you could assign a sprite or animation to a character, the character would continue to have that sprite or animation until you changed it.  Say a character was running across the screen, at the frame he started, you'd just assign his "run" animation (also probably from an external file).

The reason I'd like something like this is because I think it would be a lot easier/faster to compose quick pixel art short films this way (the GM object/background, etc.).  Instead of editing the frame, you'd edit what goes on in the frame, assigning sprites and actions.  Sure, a lot of this could be done in GM right now, but I think it could be streamlined for the specific purpose of pixel art films.  And yeah, there would invariably be limitations, but it would cut down on the graphical work and time required to make a pixel film.

[KniteBlargh]

I have to say I like this idea (though I'm no help with programming or anything, sorry). It sounds sort of like what Hallmark did on one of their card making programs that I used to have. It had a feature for making animated e-cards by giving certain objects commands, like making some little girl walk into the viewpoint, causing sounds to play at a set time, and stuff like that. I made some fun little stories/movies using that feature, only, this idea could be better since it could allow custom graphics, sounds, music, all that stuff. If anything, it sounds like it would be fun to play around with here and there, so nice idea.

[Ivan]

I'm pretty sure that the original Autodesk Animator is abandonware also.

[GregWS]

You didn't just utter the name of AUTODESK did you???

That horrid name must never be spoken again in TIGS, or else it shall pollute us.

For those unaware of why I hate Autodesk, here's a couple true stories:

I had to pay $200 for AutoCAD, but it's only a ONE YEAR LICENSE.  AND, that was a student price!  Just think about what companies pay!

A cool program that could be used to optimize your buildings and make them more environmentally friendly used to cost $1000; Autodesk bought it out and it now costs $2500.

Fucking Autodesk!

[Tobasco Panda]

I'm pretty sure that the original Autodesk Animator is abandonware also.

Hahaha I was just about to mention Autodesk Animator. God the interface is weird, as it was made before the currently accepted standards (key shortcuts and the like) but it does some stuff that nothing else really does well.

Something like MMF or Gamemaker could also probably be wrangled into doing what you are looking for.

[GregWS]

Something like MMF or Gamemaker could also probably be wrangled into doing what you are looking for.

Yes, it could, but the whole idea is for me to create a program which makes the whole task a cakewalk (ironically I'll be attempting to make it in GM).

[deadeye]

Hahaha I was just about to mention Autodesk Animator. God the interface is weird...

Hmm, should I draw a BOX or a BOX?  Well, why not both?  Add a little UNZAG, and viola! 

Something like MMF or Gamemaker could also probably be wrangled into doing what you are looking for.

That's what I was thinking too.  I guess an avi exporter plugin for MMF or GM would pretty much do the trick.  At least it would save having to use CamStudio or something I guess.

[Nate Kling]

I know that Super Brothers uses promotion.  I think what you are asking for is doable in a pixel editing program like promotion or graphics gale but you would have to do alot of those functions you mentioned by hand.  For instance, you could create your background in one frame say 800x600 and then have another file that was your camera size 320x240.  Now you can copy and paste into the background layer when you want to move the background instead of having to draw.  you could also create premade walk animations,jump, etc. for your characters in other files then copy and paste on to a new layer in your camera file and you would be able to add in walks instead of having to draw them over and over. What you are proposing would make this quicker but you can always do it manually.

[agj]

I'm not thinking of just a frame editor, I'm more thinking of a system in which there are things like "scenes" "backgrounds" and "actors."  Something far more streamlined than individual frame editing (which I hate the idea of).

That sounds mighty interesting and I'd sure like to play around with such a program.

[GregWS]

I'm not thinking of just a frame editor, I'm more thinking of a system in which there are things like "scenes" "backgrounds" and "actors."  Something far more streamlined than individual frame editing (which I hate the idea of).

That sounds mighty interesting and I'd sure like to play around with such a program.

Thanks agj!  A lot of people seem pretty neutral on it, but I have talked too a few who think it would be fun.  The reason I'd like it is because I think having a streamlined pixel film program would be really fun, and a lot of cool stuff would probably come out of it, especially if it was easy to use.  I just refuse to do frame by frame edits when I know a better system could be made.

[Gnarf]

I do think it sounds sort of neat, potentially. Like, some poor man's Pro Motion (or whatever) wouldn't be all that interesting, but if it's actually real handy and neat and things, then that'd be, uh, handy and neat, I guess.

So if anyone has any idea/suggestions for this project then please post them, so that when I get around to actually trying to make it I know what people want.  What would you like to see in a program like this?

Making objects out of several pictures (that is, one object containing several frames), moving them about on some scene and being able to quickly cycle through the frames of each instance of an object. Like, moving objects around on a scene rather pasting pictures onto a scene. And so being able to drag a sprite thing a little to the left in the next frame instead of having to paste it onto the scene in the right position. I think that'd make things handy. And as I'm reading posts in this thread while writing this, I notice that that might very well be what you were getting at with the scenes, backgrounds, actors stuff.

Possibly layers, and at least the ability to order things within each/the layer so that you shouldn't need to set up layers in order to do simple things.

Onion skinning, I suppose.

Sensible default palette. And, eh, stuff.

Oh, and if anyone would be interesting in teaming up to make this, or even making this into a community project that isn't Indie Brawl, that would be awesome too!

I'm not interested in that if it is done in Game Maker First of all because I'm not very interested in working with Game Maker. And also, and this is mostly ignorance speaking, I suppose, because it doesn't sound very much like the right tool for the job to me. It just sounds a bit like "I suppose I can hack this thing into doing what I want", but like, maybe I'm terribly wrong about that.

Apart from that it sounds like something I'd maybe possibly would be interested in contributing to.

[GregWS]

I'm not interested in that if it is done in Game Maker First of all because I'm not very interested in working with Game Maker. And also, and this is mostly ignorance speaking, I suppose, because it doesn't sound very much like the right tool for the job to me. It just sounds a bit like "I suppose I can hack this thing into doing what I want", but like, maybe I'm terribly wrong about that.

No worries because you said "mostly ignorance speaking."  I actually think this program would be quite easy to construct in GM (well, relatively speaking), and since my other programming skills are fairly weak, I'd need to team up with a programmer to do it any other way, and were that the case I'd probably end up becoming the dreaded "idea man," who'd have all these grand ideas I wanted implemented, but not be able to implement them myself.

My only one concern with doing it in GM is that I don't think it would be able to export avi's directly, and you'd have to use Cam Studio or something to record it.  That said, I'm sure it would be possible to extend GM so that it could export avi's, but again, I probably couldn't do that on my own.