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TIGSource ForumsPlayerGeneralThe issue of games as self expression
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Author Topic: The issue of games as self expression  (Read 9186 times)
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« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2007, 09:35:06 PM »

There's only one book of his that I know of, but it costs 500$. There's another more popular book composed of the first 3 chapters of that big book, and that's the one I read. I wrote about it a bit here: http://rinku.livejournal.com/1271129.html
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« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2007, 09:54:29 PM »

Nice, thanks again!  This quote is quite intriguing:

"A good deal is said these days about being oneself. It is supposed to be healthy to be oneself. While it is a little hard for me to understand how one could be anything else, I suppose what is meant is that one should not strive to become anything other than what he is. This strikes me as a very dull way of living; in fact, I would be inclined to argue that all of us would be better off if we set out to be something other than what we are. Well, I’m not so sure we would all be better off - perhaps it would be more accurate to say life would be a lot more interesting."
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Intuition Games
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« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2007, 10:06:41 PM »

rolls eyes
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« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2007, 10:15:33 PM »

I like him because of quotes like that, since he's not afraid to go against common consensus.

There are a couple of ways to see that issue. The 'be yourself' idea is a bit cliche and doesn't say much and can lead to people not improving themselves or ever changing, using it as an excuse for everything, "I'm just being me" etc.

But just becoming anything arbitrary isn't a good idea either. Better I think is become what you want to be, or even "become what you are" -- take the best parts of yourself and highlight those, take the weakest parts and either get rid of them or turn them into strengths.

But this is getting off topic -- back on topic: I don't think we should worry too much about how different people make games. It's the end results that matter. If a great game is made through committee, then great, it's just that it's historically less likely to happen than with a strong driving auteur.
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« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2007, 10:29:49 PM »

Yeah, I'm not sure if I agree with that 100%, but it's definitely fun to entertain the idea.

I'm not trying to worry about how different people make games, I'm trying to understand how they make them so I can discover new ways of how I can do it, too.  I believe that having a good process can greatly increase the quality of your work.

I've kind of been "just doing it" for a while now, so I figured I would take a step back and try to make sense of things.
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« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2007, 05:18:47 AM »

Understandable; I was just referring to the motivation for starting this topic (being offended). It's a good idea to think about how different people make games, but not just because other people disagree. I don't even think he was referring to things like the best shmup moments thread at all. I've seen much more blatant "I need some enemies for my game, suggest ideas and I'll put them in" type threads, and I suspect he meant those.
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« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2007, 05:51:28 AM »

so this is a "what is art" thread now?
oh please.

who the fuck knows okay?
you'Re gonna ask a billion people and you'Re gonna get a billion different answers.
and dont quote some dictionary on me.
"what is art" is seriously one of the most pointless question you can ask.
art is in the intention. art is what you make of it.
you need only to declare it so to make anything art.

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« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2007, 05:54:43 AM »

Are you requesting that we stop talking about it?
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« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2007, 05:55:50 AM »

so this is a "what is art" thread now?
oh please.

who the fuck knows okay?
you'Re gonna ask a billion people and you'Re gonna get a billion different answers.
and dont quote some dictionary on me.
"what is art" is seriously one of the most pointless question you can ask.
art is in the intention. art is what you make of it.
you need only to declare it so to make anything art.



I have been following this thread off and on, and this is the only post worth anything. Please, guys, the thread started out as someone complaining because he felt hurt. Wah wah. We don't need to make another immature thread for game makers. Lock the thread, and be done with it.
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« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2007, 05:58:54 AM »

Well, if Derek doesn't think we should discuss these types of things, I'll keep it to places like the tale-of-tales forum and my LiveJournal. But there seems to be a good number of people interested in the subject here, even if there are also people who don't care for the subject, so I'll leave it up to him.
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« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2007, 06:27:31 AM »

so this is a "what is art" thread now?
oh please.

who the fuck knows okay?
you'Re gonna ask a billion people and you'Re gonna get a billion different answers.
and dont quote some dictionary on me.
"what is art" is seriously one of the most pointless question you can ask.
art is in the intention. art is what you make of it.
you need only to declare it so to make anything art.



It never was about that.  I've said that a couple times.  This whole time, it's been about what self expression is, NOT art.  I think I've gotten some help on that, though.   I'm satisfied.
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« Reply #31 on: July 16, 2007, 07:41:11 AM »

Self-expression is the act of EXPRESSING YOURSELF.

<EDIT>You do want to express yourself, don't you?



My prescription for games: more flair.</EDIT>

As to art and inspiration and making games...the WHY is always more important than the WHAT.  That is Jon's point, I think, and I agree 100%.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2007, 10:13:09 AM by AdamAtomic » Logged

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« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2007, 07:49:36 AM »

Leave it to nerds to have to create an equation for emotion. Christ this thread is depressing.
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« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2007, 07:58:20 AM »

you know, if you need to be told what self-expression is....
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« Reply #34 on: July 16, 2007, 08:24:58 AM »


Let the N.W.A. tell you how it is...

http://flashbacked.net/mp3/14%20Express%20Yourself%20(extended%20mix).mp3
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« Reply #35 on: July 16, 2007, 09:35:00 AM »

Niggaaa

Actually, I kinda wish there was a game that was really fucking out there. I mean, Japanese games are really Japanese, and American games are really American, but ghetto games are never ghetto enough - I'm looking at you Mark Ecko. I want to see Street Fighter 4 with Alex Valle as a character. American McGee's Bad Day for LA almost got it, but...  well it became too political and not fun. It seems as though Nintendo's localization team is close, but they're so fucking...  Nintendo.

If this thread doesn't die, I am going to just write bullshit posts like this.
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« Reply #36 on: July 16, 2007, 11:10:40 AM »

What's with the angst?  I don't buy "you shouldn't think about this" as a counter-argument.
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« Reply #37 on: July 16, 2007, 11:49:21 AM »

How do you go about creating games as a means of self expression?
Just make the games you want to make, aquire a "damn the torpedoes" attitude about other people's opinion.  Don't let somebody else rain on your parade just because they don't like your idea, know what I'm sayin?
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« Reply #38 on: July 16, 2007, 11:52:56 AM »

Follow Your Heart!
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« Reply #39 on: July 16, 2007, 11:53:04 AM »

damn the torpedoes?
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