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[Daniel Pellicer]

So i wanted to try a new DAW that had vst possibilities and I have tried a few. I think i will use sonar x2.

The question is what VST's are normally recommended?

I would like to have orchestra, choirs, a electric and a acoustic guitar, some pianos, and also chiptune sounds. Also it would be good to have some effects.

Ive heard that the Gold EastWest/Quantum Leap Symphonic Orchestra is very good but I think is a little bit expensive. The silver wouldnt be enough?

Where can I find instruments for the other things?

[PythonBlue]

Unfortunately, while EWQL is indeed expensive, it's your most affordable option for a convincing orchestral sound. I personally have Gold, which is definitely the biggest bang for your buck (more than I can say for the prices set by VSL).

As for guitars, if you want something affordable, I almost always use Shreddage II by Impact Soundworks. The plus about it from the soundtrack perspective is that soundtracks with electric guitars tend to have lots of power chords, and Shreddage is geared for rhythm guitars, anyway.

Omnisphere may be the standard for effects and some other electronic sounds as well.

[Daniel Pellicer]

Thanks!

Hmmm omnisphere looks quite expensive also... and it doesnt look too easy to use. What is your experience with it?

[SanctusAudio]

I would suggest "Komplete". When you look at the price it seems expensive but it is really a huge deal considering what you get. I got two versions bellow the current just released "Komplete" pack and it does wonders. Not all sounds packed into them are perfect but they get the Job done. The great thing you get besides quality of sound with "Komplete" is its wide range of vsts. When trying to become a video game composer, you want to have a LARGE pool of resources to pull from for specific requests.....Ill give you and example.

The last game that I composed for was an Indie game called "Full Moon Rising". Durring my work on that project I was asked to do a "70s porn version of Pop Goes the Weasel". If that isn't a Unique request then I don't know what is lol. I would have never had been able to pull that off without Komplete. Hope that helps!

[Carrion]

Icecream or go home.

[mscottweber]

I would reccomend Spitfire's Albion 1 http://www.spitfireaudio.com/albion

Its roughly the same price as EWQL Gold, but IMO sounds waay better.

[ZackParrish]

Hell, get complete composers collection from EWQL, usually runs around $900 or so and you get between 5-8 full libraries(including EWQL SO Gold), which they aren't the greatest samples overall(all libraries that is), they are definitely resource hogs, but you'll round out your instruments quite nicely.  You can include in the libraries you put in CCC things like Goliath(the catch all for random instruments you might not think you'll ever need), Pianos Gold(awesome pianos, 4 of them), Ra(world/ethnic instrumentation with some nice stuff in there), Ministry of Rock(definitely not up to stuff with the flexibility of Shreddage II but it's a starting point at least).

At some point you will want to get a copy of Kontakt 5(current version that's out) because there are a LOT of third party libraries that are made for it that are pretty well rounded and versatile.  Like Shreddage II, Shreddage Bass, LA Scoring Strings, Orange Tree Samples Evolution Acoustic Guitar, Spitfire's Dulcimer, CineHarp, etc.

Another option as mentioned above is to get KOMPLETE, whatever the most recent version is, because it'll come with Kontakt 5(which is around $400-500 usually by itself), plus a full arsenal of samples.  EWQL SO Gold isn't spectacular(it's what I use primarily), but the VSL samples that have been coming with Komplete kind of blow in comparison.  The customization aspect of Kontakt though, how much control you have on things, is something you definitely do not want to overlook.  You also get several other standalone VSTs with KOMPLETE like Absynth, Massive, FM, Guitar Rig(great for use in conjunction with Shreddage II), etc.

I strongly recommend you doing a lot of research on the different avenues you can take to building your library.  I bought CCC and Komplete, and combined they are great, apart they are lacking in several parts of the libraries they contain.

But yeah... research.  Also, if you hear something one composer has written that sound remarkable, ask them what they used to make it.  You might be surprised how often composers use more generic stuff than higher end samples. :\ 

[Jasmine]

I'm actually glad you started this thread, E.E. I'll be working soon, and I've spent time making lists for potential vsts and the like to save up.

I wanted to know if it is okay to add to E.E's question:

In terms of DAWs, how does Fruity Loops fare?

I use FL, and unfortunately, my experience with tutorials or introductions to large libraries usually take place in Daws like Logic, or Kontakt. I rarely see information about FL, and whether it works well compatibility wise with high-end software like EWQL, Spitfire, etc.

Should I perhaps switch my DAW?

I am curious as to what DAW you switched from upon concluding to use Sonar, Estudio. Was FL one of them? Does Sonar prove to be more compatible with high-end libraries, in addition to being what you would like out of a DAW?

Maybe I should research more.

[ZackParrish]

I think the DAW ultimately depends on your preferred workflow.  I've heard some astounding stuff done using FL Studio, and equally as impressive stuff done in Logic, Sonar, Ableton, etc.  Most DAWs have some form of demo you can use for so many days(without the option to save in most cases) that really help clarify what they can/can't do.  Sonar is what I use and I love it, and I've used several other DAWs in the past just to test other grounds... and Sonar and I just... click.  Calum Bowen(I'm sure you've seen his posts and heard his music if you've been browsing this forum) does some astounding work and he uses Logic. :p  A large part of this "profession" or "hobby" whatever it is to you... is testing the many many waters of it and finding out what works best for you.  Studying other people's music that fits better with what your end game is and even just talking to them about how they do what they do, and how they got to where they were will help.  As many of us as there are, we seldom follow the same path as one another(unless you go to the same college and take the same courses... but even then I've known people that chose their own methods outside of what they learned in school).

Definitely play around with multiple DAWs though, and whichever one clicks for you, is what you should use.  There are always ways to expand out from the core of the program to make it do more than what you would traditionally get out of it.

[SanctusAudio]

M4 I have used Flstudio for like 6 years and am absolutely comfortable with it. I will give you some links to my music so you can hear for yourself. Basically the difference you will find with different daws would be the stock plugins that come with it. Flstudios stock plugins are ok but I use it for its composition potential. I put alot of money into Vsts.

https://soundcloud.com/jacob-kauble/space-station


https://soundcloud.com/jacob-kauble/the-broken-blade


https://soundcloud.com/jacob-kauble/sets/full-moon-rising

[PythonBlue]

Thanks!

Hmmm omnisphere looks quite expensive also... and it doesnt look too easy to use. What is your experience with it?

You're welcome.

Actually, I feel Omnisphere IS relatively straightforward to use. The only exceptions being the FM, Waveshaper, and Ring Mod effects in the main edit tab, which have unusual values for their processes, but those aren't even required, there are so many included soundsources.

Yes, the price tag could be a problem, but on the other hand, it has a few sounds from their sample CD's, some of which rivalled Omnsiphere in price on their own. Omnisphere also has a virtual analog engine which takes up much less computer memory and speed than Arturia products.

[Daniel Pellicer]

Thanks for all the answers!

I've been checking all the things you posted and this is what I think:

Shreddage 2 sounds very good, but for what I've seen it doesn't include an acoustic guitar, does it? Also i find very interesting that in the official page they include this as an example for the sound:
https://soundcloud.com/isworks/shreddage-2-corridors-of-time

It's a chrono trigger arrangement!

Komplete 9: It looks really really good. The sound that brings is quite good also and having this big variety can only be good. My only concern would be that maybe Im not able to exploit it entirelly at the beginning and the orchestra instruments in EWQL SO Gold sounds a little bit better in my opinion.

CCC I didn't know about this but because I'm already probably going to buy the gold it seems a good alternative. Now there is a problem. I have a laptop, how I am supposed to put the hard drive inside it? xD
edit: the version 2 comes with external hard drive. no problems then . If I buy I think i would choose this instruments:
Symphonic Orchestra Gold
Pianos Gold
Stormdrum 2
Ministry of Rock 2
Ra
Goliath
Symphonic Choirs


Im thinking and maybe getting the CCC to start with something is a good idea. What is the bad side of only getting this one? what are his "weak" points?

edit 2: what about this hollywood gold masterpieces?



PD/Answer to M4uesviecr: I've tried before a few daws and this is what I think:

Reason: It's very user friendly and I find it quite easy to use. I've been using this one since now but the problem is that it doesnt allow vst and this constraints me a little bit
Cubase: I think this is a very good choice but for me it feels just too complicated.
Abbleton live: It was quite easy to use and nice interface but I couldnt use it too long and I was not totally convinced so I changed to the next one
Fruity loops: I think is also quite nice but the problem for me is that it doesnt feel very professional (this is only a taste thing I know you can do very very professional things with it)
Sonar: At the beginning it was a little bit strange because I have a laptop and the screen is only 17 inches so everything was with too less space but when I got to arrange the view properly it feels quite nice. Is very simple to use and also quite simmilar to reason (thats what Im used to) So I think after the 15 days of the trial I will buy this one.

[Jasmine]

Sanctus, thanks a ton for the links! Aside from you, I only know one other person who writes music using FL. Not that people don't, but my other friend tends to go the more electronic/glitch route, so I'm often unsure where that leaves me, orchestrally. It seems that I will also be spending money on Vsts, but that is to be expected.

Do you use Slayer for your heavy metal tracks? If so, I'd love to see the damage that real guitars could do. I really like them.

Zack, you bring up a good point. I've been using FL since birth. I do enjoy it, but a part of me is wondering if I should at LEAST branch out and try other DAWs. One of the main reasons I stick with FL is for comfortability - I've used it this long, it's my first.

Testing the waters, ah...

Back to the topic at hand - Cinesamples is a library that I had written down on my list of possible prospects. You could try checking that out.

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Edit
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Thank you Evergreen! Your summarys proved to be very useful.

[ZackParrish]

The Hollywood sets are confined to specific segments of the orchestra, and pricey in their own as well.  You can buy the string(violins, Violas, Celli, Bass), the Brass(trumps, bones, tubas, horns), or Woodwinds.

Even bundling those three sets would be a pricey purchase.  It comes with no percussion which is a big downside, it's a resource hog from hell(most of the functions you would even buy the set for most likely would not work that well on your laptop).

Shreddage II only includes a clean sampled electric with no FX run over it. The advantages of this are that you can run it through different AMP sims, pedals, cabinets, etc... so achieve the sound you want.  There is no preset distortion on it,blah blah blah...Shreddage Bass = same concept.  I believe they have a bundle of the two as well. The best acoustic guitar sound I've heard is Orange Tree Samples Evolution Acoustic Guitar, but it's pretty comlicated when you start trying to make it sound like a real guitar.  An example of EAG is the intro of this...

http://soundcloud.com/zack-parrish/valdis-story-abyssal-city-29

I manually controlled the picking direction, the fret position, had it set to mono strings(each of the 6 strings notes based on the fret position would play legato and replace the previous note if it was played on the same string as another note), etc blah blah.  It's been a while since I wrote it so I can't remember all of what I was screwing with... but it did take around 5 hours to sequence just the intro guitar part(part of that was actually making sure it was 100% playable on a real guitar though).

CCC I have found to be a powerhouse for many things right out of the box.  Everything in this track was done using CCC save for the guitar part which is real...

http://soundcloud.com/zack-parrish/windhaven-the-final-assault

That was the second thing I wrote using CCC.  Most of what is in there is EWQL SO Gold samples, some of the percussion is from Storm Drum 2, the piano is from Pianos Gold, the Duduk is from Ra, annnnnnnd... think that's all. 

I would not recommend the Symphonic Choirs though but instead looking at getting one of the other sets, possible something with some more synth.  The choir set's only advantage is having Wordbuilder but it'll take you 100 years to make something sound good with it, and the AAAAAAAAH patches and such aren't that great. The choir samples from Goliath actually are stripped down versions of the same thing. :\

One thing to keep in mind is that alot of libraries(a few some have barked out in this thread including myself) require a full version of Kontakt 4/5 in order to use them.  Some like Shreddage II come with a license to use them with Kontakt Player(works with licensed sets only, everything else loads up in demo mode).  That's one of the main advantages to getting KOMPLETE, because it comes with the full version of Kontakt, and it's something you will want to have in your arsenal at some point.  You also get a ton of synth options with COMPLETE, but if you buy Sonar X2 it usually comes with some factory installed presets that are pretty nice.  That's the weak point of CCC... the synth instrumentation, as well as the customization of the instruments just isn't there like in kontakt.  In Kontakt you can use scripts(has a scripting engine that is worth learning IMO) that let you do some pretty cool stuff, lots of instrument control options(8 insert effects, 8 send effects, modulation(volume, pitch, etc), etc.

Oh, I forgot almost... Battery 3(might be Battery 4) comes with Komplete and it's got a ton of drum presets in it, and you can also build your own kit with it.  I think for acoustic drums it kind of blows though, and I always go back to Ministry of Rock II's rock sets for drums myself, and use Battery 3 primarily for synthetic parts.

Cinesamples is nice, but it's not exactly as perfect as it claims to be.  I have used the brass, and a friend of mine(http://soundcloud.com/jeffball) has used all parts of it and we both kind of agreed it sucks to work with next to the Hollywood sets.

LA Scoring Strings are wonderful but it's only strings, and they alone cost more than CCC.

For CCC & Komplete I'd wait for a Holiday and see if they put either on special.  Sometimes CCC will let you add two more sets without raising the cost, and KOMPLETE will drop in price by $100-200(rarity but it happens).

Anywayyyyyy...

From the music I've heard from you, you kind of sound like you are going the same direction style wise that I did, so my recommendation would be to go with CCC first and then ultimately get Komplete too to expand your synth library more. You will then have Kontakt 5(or 6 if it's out by then) and can expand into more detailed libraries to really take advantage of all the technology laid out in front of you.

[Daniel Pellicer]

Thanks for all the detailed info Zack!

After all this research and comments I'm really looking forward to start buying a lot of things!

[Polyphonic Entity]

Not sure if there were any chiptune recommendations (maybe overlooked) but you may want to check this company out: www.plogue.com

[Daniel Pellicer]

Thanks also!

It seems there are three products. Bidule, chipsounds and chipcrusher. What is your recommendation?

[ZackParrish]

Don't spend money and search for freeware on that?  There are tons of freeware bitcrushers and chip emulators out there. :p

[Polyphonic Entity]

Well, when we make chiptune sounds, we program them either on substractive synths or on real C64 chips. But when I researched Chipsound vsts/vstis, I liked the Plogue vsti the most of those I tested iirc. Their bitcrusher features impulse responses of various devices and has an interesting touch. But you can also look for freeware like http://www.toneboosters.com/tb-timemachine/

[ZackParrish]

Ah, I just use magical8bitplugin usually... gets the job done and I'm not too picky about it since I rarely actually write any "chiptune" type stuff.  It does have more options on it than typical chip based emulation, significantly more I might add(talking about Plogue's VST), so it is a nice one stop shop that would save time from jumping between varying synths.