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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperBusinessDistributing digital covers of copyrighted songs for free
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Author Topic: Distributing digital covers of copyrighted songs for free  (Read 5795 times)
nayon
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« on: November 02, 2008, 02:04:31 PM »

So, what's the legality of this? I heard some stuff about the Harry Fox agency, but their site doesn't answer my question exactly.
Let me give an example. I cover a song, then make a game. I put the song in the game. I distribute the game for free, but I don't claim the song is my own, I make it extremely clear that I have covered song X from band Y.

Would this get me in trouble?
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cyber95
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« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2008, 02:29:59 PM »

So, what's the legality of this? I heard some stuff about the Harry Fox agency, but their site doesn't answer my question exactly.
Let me give an example. I cover a song, then make a game. I put the song in the game. I distribute the game for free, but I don't claim the song is my own, I make it extremely clear that I have covered song X from band Y.

Would this get me in trouble?
Pretty sure you could have people pay for the game and you wouldn't get in trouble.
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moi
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« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2008, 03:19:15 PM »

Copyright, do you know what it is?
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nayon
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« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2008, 03:32:00 PM »

Yeah, I do obviously, but I think there's this thing with it being non-profit... Lots of bands put covers of other bands on their myspaces etc. and they even say if we put this on a cd it would be a legal problem so we're only putting it on myspace etc. Just like some people say you can make fangames as long as they are non-profit. That's why I'm asking, I'm unsure
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cyber95
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« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2008, 04:25:21 PM »

There's a cover of Bicycle Race on a Lemon Demon album, and his latest album contains a remix of Hey Ya. Not a cover, a remix.  Yes, they do cost money. He doesn't seem to be getting in any trouble.
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Zaphos
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« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2008, 06:02:15 PM »

I found a guide on the process here:
http://www.cleverjoe.com/articles/music_copyright_law.html
Can't vouch for the accuracy but it seems to be written by someone who's gone through it, so it might help.
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nayon
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« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2008, 10:28:13 PM »

I already saw that article, and it doesn't really apply because he's trying to sell his covers. I'm not trying to sell them, I'm just trying to put them in a game!

Damn, I can't even ask a lawyer because I live in Turkey and the law's probably different here. I would like to know the U.S law though, because I'm gonna distribute em over the internet and I'm gonna live in the US from next year on so when I come through the border I don't want people arresting me saying I've broken the law :D

Anyway, doesn't anybody have an idea? There was also this thing with the Classic Doom 3 mod, the guy covered all the songs in the original game and released them with the mod for free...

EDIT: Interesting stuff on wikipedia, take a look:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use#Common_misunderstandings

How do you interpret that?
« Last Edit: November 02, 2008, 11:34:49 PM by NaYoN » Logged

Zaphos
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« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2008, 12:22:49 AM »

Your use probably doesn't fall under fair use, or personal noncommercial ... the article should still apply.

Anyway, doesn't anybody have an idea? There was also this thing with the Classic Doom 3 mod, the guy covered all the songs in the original game and released them with the mod for free...
My understanding is that this is the type of thing that the copyright holder has to actually pursue for anything to happen, and often (if it's not too high profile a thing) the rights holder will just not know or not care enough to do anything.  Also, for something like this it seems like the most response that would likely happen is you'd just get a cease and desist and have to take your cover off the net -- annoying, but not that big a deal.

IANAL though.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2008, 05:39:40 AM »

There's a cover of Bicycle Race on a Lemon Demon album, and his latest album contains a remix of Hey Ya. Not a cover, a remix.  Yes, they do cost money. He doesn't seem to be getting in any trouble.

maybe they just paid to cover them or maybe they even work for the same major.

for example if you work for virgin you can cover whaterver shit was published by virgin just talking to them.

anyway if you make something that uses someone else work you can do that following the therms of "Fair use" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use
this link is referred to US one but similar laws are active in many states

« Last Edit: November 03, 2008, 05:49:36 AM by Eclipse » Logged

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nayon
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« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2008, 06:43:25 AM »

Alright, then another question.

Distributing music tablature for free was deemed illegal in the US, however the site ultimate-guitar.com was based in Russia or something, and they went "well fuck you America" and kept distributing the tabs.

Since I'm not in America, I can do the same thing, right?

EDIT: I searched for the songs I'm going to cover, and they didn't turn up on this site: http://www.songfile.com/

Apparently that site is "the place" to obtain the licences, and the songs aren't there. And this site is for America, so among the bands I'm going to cover the songs of, if they are American, does this mean I can just cover the songs?

EDIT2: Apparently the site ahsn't been updates since 2007 and thus doesn't contain newer songs... So how do I acquire an official license for songs?
« Last Edit: November 03, 2008, 08:41:15 AM by NaYoN » Logged

qubodup
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« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2008, 01:23:48 PM »

Since I'm not in America, I can do the same thing, right?
It should be illegal in Russia too. And probably also where you are located (most of earth).
So how do I acquire an official license for songs?
Did you try to find contact information (email or telephone) and contact them?
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nayon
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« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2008, 02:44:44 PM »

I emailed some people and am awaiting replies. Hopefully I can get through bureaucracy and actually reach someone to understand me.
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nayon
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« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2008, 03:14:21 PM »

Just an update, I can't go through the harry fox agency, which is the licenser of all these songs, because:

"Customers must be conducting business in the U.S., and have a valid credit card with a U.S. billing address."

http://www.harryfox.com/docs/HFA_Songfile_1031.pdf


And that doesn't apply to me.
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cyber95
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« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2008, 04:16:12 PM »

There's a cover of Bicycle Race on a Lemon Demon album, and his latest album contains a remix of Hey Ya. Not a cover, a remix.  Yes, they do cost money. He doesn't seem to be getting in any trouble.

maybe they just paid to cover them or maybe they even work for the same major.
Lemon Demon is independent. He pretty much just makes songs for fun.
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qubodup
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« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2008, 08:09:26 PM »

HFA_Songfile_1031.pdf
☀★☹⚡☠☓☢!
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mildmojo
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« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2008, 06:10:09 PM »

Hit up Google for "copyright myths."  Here's my understanding of USA copyright law:

If you're distributing a copyrighted work (like the original song), it doesn't matter whether you charge money or not, it's still a copyright violation unless you've obtained permission from the copyright owner.  Charging money can increase your exposure to monetary damages in court, though.

If you cover or remix a work, your new work is considered a derivative work.  Derivative works that aren't covered by fair use (commentary, parody, etc.) must be created by the copyright owner or with said owner's permission, otherwise it's a copyright violation.

Including a song or remix with a game would fall under one of the situations above, though I'm not sure which one.  There's a chance that the copyright owner wouldn't take any action against you, that would be at their discretion; the law's still being broken.  If the song is by an artist on a label under the RIAA umbrella--well, those guys are effing loco.  It's up to you.
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nayon
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« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2008, 12:55:18 AM »

Well, I mailed lots of people, and none replied. So I'm going to assume that they don't care whether I cover their songs or not. IF I get "cease-n-desist"ed, I'll take the covers out of the game.

But they should have replied, in my opninion. It's not nice to ignore someone.
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Mr Dumle
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« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2008, 01:19:11 PM »

I won't like you if you use someone else's song without permission. It's a dick move imo.

- Edit

Oh, you are making a free game. Well then it's ok. Just a little lame.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2008, 01:23:20 PM by Mr Dumle » Logged

nayon
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« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2008, 10:24:25 PM »

Well I asked them for permission, and they didn't respond. What am I to do? And it's going to be a music game, so the name of the original artist will be all over. I mean it's the best I can do. Either this, or I don't make the game at all.
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Hajo
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« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2008, 06:30:49 AM »

Well, you need their permission. Not getting an answer means not getting permission. It might seem unfair, but that's how it is. There isn't much you can do. Maybe re-send the requests, and wait some more.
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