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TIGSource ForumsCommunityDevLogsApple and Worm: Patching Holes In Spacetime
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Author Topic: Apple and Worm: Patching Holes In Spacetime  (Read 51765 times)
JobLeonard
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« Reply #280 on: January 22, 2018, 11:35:42 AM »

The blue pen drawing style definitely has its own charm
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diegzumillo
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« Reply #281 on: January 29, 2018, 10:13:58 PM »

As anticipated I didn't have the weekend available because of a seminar I had to give today. Also as expected it went absolutely horribly and I feel awful. So I declared the rest of this horrible monday as New Sunday and worked on some apple and worm. Had some cake too.

Squashed some more bugs and the physics objects seem to be moving a lot better between regions. I noticed that most of the physics bugs are not really on my physics implementation but on my transition transformations. Tiny bugs here and there that are hard to notice until you try to get a high speed rigid body through it.

Anyway, here's the another gif similar to the previous ones except with a non constant scale. So now bodies going through the funnel from one side come out the other side bigger and vice versa.



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Prinsessa
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« Reply #282 on: January 30, 2018, 10:58:15 AM »

can't tell if they're bugging out when hitting walls or if that's an intentional particle effect to sell the impact
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diegzumillo
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« Reply #283 on: January 30, 2018, 11:15:07 AM »

Ah, those are debug lines showing internal forces keeping the shape together. That's why they appear on impact. An interesting aspect of this Verlet physics (it's actually related to the separating axis collision method, not integration) implementation is that it naturally relies on generic shapes instead of having specific shapes and then specific functions to handle every possible collision, like box-box, box-circle etc.

There are a few bugs appearing there though. You may have noticed a body disappearing when sliding into a collider right at the transition. I still don't know if that's collision or transition related.

For next weekend I hope there won't be any more transition bugs and I'll be able to focus completely on the physics engine. The physics engine doesn't seem to have a lot of bogs on its own too. I'm eager to implement friction, torque on contact, and controllable colliders. I'm even more eager to use this to setup a player controlled character! This was a lot of work but I can almost see my original game idea being able to come back to this incarnation of the engine. Get some gifs that actually look like a game back on this devlog too. Happy times.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2018, 01:02:58 PM by diegzumillo » Logged

DGSpitzer
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« Reply #284 on: January 30, 2018, 11:38:46 AM »

Wow! That's a pretty cool idea!  Hand Joystick
I used to have an idea similar to this, but stopped at concept phase (too hard for me to achieve couple years ago). Tears of Joy
Your game is overall awesome and looks so polished! Keep going with the great work!  Beer!
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marcgfx
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« Reply #285 on: January 30, 2018, 02:13:10 PM »

Nice to see you are still working on it Smiley
Have you considered adding something like arrows for the gravity? I could not quite understand why things are happening the way they are just by looking at it.
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@falkenbrew
diegzumillo
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« Reply #286 on: January 30, 2018, 04:46:09 PM »

Wow! That's a pretty cool idea!  Hand Joystick
I used to have an idea similar to this, but stopped at concept phase (too hard for me to achieve couple years ago). Tears of Joy
Your game is overall awesome and looks so polished! Keep going with the great work!  Beer!

Thanks!  Coffee

Nice to see you are still working on it Smiley
Have you considered adding something like arrows for the gravity? I could not quite understand why things are happening the way they are just by looking at it.

Heey haven't seen you in a while :D

For now this is all just debug graphics but I decided to act onyour comment and make a more readable version. I Joined the regions to make it look like it should in the final game, removed the unnecessary debug lines and added a gravity arrow. How does it look now?



All right. Now I'm seriously going to stop working on this.
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JobLeonard
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« Reply #287 on: January 31, 2018, 06:29:34 AM »

Are you aware of the Experimental Gameplay Project? It's kind of half-forgotten in Internet/Indy Game Dev history (it is surprisingly hard to find information about it), but it's where World of Goo came from. TL;DR back in 2005, when indy-gaming was in its infancy, a bunch of devs decided to challenge themselves to make one experimental game per week around a simple theme

Quote
The project started in Spring 2005 with the goal of discovering and rapidly prototyping as many new forms of gameplay as possible. A team of four grad students, we locked ourselves in a room for a semester with three rules:

    1. Each game must be made in less than seven days,
    2. Each game must be made by exactly one person,
    3. Each game must be based around a common theme i.e. "gravity", "vegetation", "swarms", etc.


https://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/130848/how_to_prototype_a_game_in_under_7_.php

Really, the current-day game jams owe a lot of their DNA to these guys.

Anyway, the reason I bring this up is because I think your wire-frame graphics hit a real sweet-spot in terms of charm, readability, and the freedom to do quick experimental iteration.

Maybe you should allow yourself to have some productive fun and spend a few days making one experimental game a week, or even a mini-game every few days, using just these wireframe graphics.
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diegzumillo
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« Reply #288 on: January 31, 2018, 08:45:28 AM »

I remember that. It did occur to me to make more experimental tiny games while I'm developing this system, because after so much work it doesn't feel right to put it all into one single game anyway. But, even though the time frame in these projects are small (week long) the time I have to spare is ridiculous in comparison. I don't even have the full weekend! Lately each half sunday I use to fix a bug. Singular. Hopefully my life will get a little easier next semester or year
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marcgfx
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« Reply #289 on: January 31, 2018, 08:51:25 AM »

The gravity arrows make it a lot easier for me to understand. Still had to watch a few loops of the gif to understand it all though Smiley But it makes sense! I hope you can find more time next semester Smiley
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« Reply #290 on: January 31, 2018, 11:56:06 AM »

I really like how on your project the art and the tech are coming together in a strongly cohesive fashion. Very impressive.
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diegzumillo
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« Reply #291 on: March 10, 2018, 12:40:18 PM »

Squashed another bug that was driving me insane. The collision detection was all screwed up. It was a tiny code problem, very silly, very hard to find. It caused most of the instability you see in the early gifs, where the object barely touches the wall and if flies away spinning. It also caused it to go through walls.

Right now I see only one bug remaining in the basic physics engine. Collision with corners. I don't know why but sometimes the object hits a corner in a very specific way and it completely vanishes. Not all corners and not always. This bug might persist a little longer, given how hard to reproduce it is. Maybe I should move on with other parts of the game now and try solving this one in parallel. The basic physics system looks solid enough now.



At least I found some time to work a little on this. Given how stressful my life has been and how complex this project is. I mean, it's hard to jump into this just for 15 minutes. 15 minutes is how long it takes to remember where are all functions and what was the problem last time I opened it.
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diegzumillo
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« Reply #292 on: March 10, 2018, 01:17:59 PM »

Looking at the gif I just realized what the corner problem is. It's not a collision bug! the object vanishes when it exists in 3 regions at the same time. My code is not designed to handle that scenario yet. OK then, next step is to fix that (and the 4 regions scenario as well)
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diegzumillo
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« Reply #293 on: March 24, 2018, 12:20:44 PM »

Begin rant

OK, took this saturday to work on this a little and now the physics engine is (I think) bug-free  Hand Shake Left Grin Hand Shake Right No gifs this time; the progress is not that visible. Now I'm a little worried about performance. It runs fine at 80 fps with a few bodies bouncing around but it can't handle a whole lot more. I think it's fine! That's a problem for future Diego to handle.

Present-day Diego needs to implement constraints now. I want to keep things as simple as possible, so no all-encompassing super general constraint system. I'm considering defining a few basic types and implement them hard coded into the system, with a flag and maybe some parameters to set for each body. For example, I want this box to not rotate, so I just tick the box that says 'lock rotation' or something.

So now it needs to be defined what constraints I'll want in the game. Rotation lock is easy and useful. To make ropes and springs I think it's easy to make too, seeing how it's almost in place already (there are no real rigid bodies in this engine, just connected vertices). But there's still the question of architecture. If I want to make a more complex physics object for a puzzle, like a seesaw with a rope on one side connected to another thing. How to setup this scenario? are these separate entities? If so I need a constraint system to be able to connect different physicsbodies (the internal class). And that might be above my arbitrary threshold.

An alternative would be to define constraints only within individual physics bodies. But make each constraint defined on each vertex instead of each physics body. I think that could be done rather easily. I dread the time when I'll have to make an editor extension to create these objects. However, the real challenge will then connecting this to the sprite system. Usually one would expect to assemble a complex machine out of different gameobjects, each with a sprite, collider etc, then create physics constraints connecting them. In this approach I don't know yet how to have an intuitive way of creating these objects representations if they would all share the same physicsbody.

So it boils down to constraint as internal to each body or definable between bodies. The former is easier to implement but difficult to create complex physics objects. The latter is harder to implement but allows for creating complex objects more easily.

Maybe the the link between bodies isn't as hard as I think. I'll make some tests here.

End rant
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diegzumillo
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« Reply #294 on: April 01, 2018, 01:41:12 PM »

Decided to make some changes to this project. I'm tired of puzzle games, so it's not about patching holes on spacetime anymore. After the tragic death of Worm, Apple seeks vengence on...
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marcgfx
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« Reply #295 on: April 01, 2018, 08:51:27 PM »

Even if it was meant as a joke, it could be pretty fun with all the bullets flying in this crazy gravity mesh :D
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@falkenbrew
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« Reply #296 on: April 02, 2018, 12:12:18 AM »

Now that it is no longer april first I can reveal that it was all an elaborate ruse!!  My Word!

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JobLeonard
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« Reply #297 on: April 02, 2018, 08:15:28 AM »

Gasp! My Word!
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diegzumillo
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« Reply #298 on: May 02, 2019, 09:38:55 AM »

You know what's not dead? APPLE AND WORM!

As embarrassing as this old topic is I will still update it because I'm stubborn. I finished my studies and now I'm just unemployed. I almost gave up on this game on several occasions but every now and then a new spark reignites this project and I don't let it go. At least now I work on this without the guilt that I should be working on something else.

My last implementation is on hold for a while. I decided to test the other alternative I mentioned before. The one where I create rooms separately, connected by portals, and render them to texture to a continuous mesh. It seemed a lot harder at the time but now I think I may have made a mistake. So I'm trying it out. If that doesn't work I can always resume the previous implementation, which had good physics and collisions already working and everything.

Anyway, I also decided to revisit my pixel art. I like the characters! those will remain. But I think everything else looks too complex. Too many levels. Muddy pixel work. This is what I'm going for now:



Work in progress. Let me know what you think
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« Reply #299 on: May 02, 2019, 11:25:29 AM »

You're back! Excellent! I was hoping he hadn't heard the last of this project.
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