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TIGSource ForumsCommunityDevLogsApple and Worm: Patching Holes In Spacetime
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Author Topic: Apple and Worm: Patching Holes In Spacetime  (Read 68631 times)
RealScaniX
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« Reply #520 on: November 09, 2019, 11:21:50 AM »

I checked it out briefly.
It didn't instantly crash, so that is good. Smiley
Z to jump was pretty unexpected. I had to look it up in the description after trying out all common jump keys like W, Up, Space. Z is at a dumb location on the German keyboard, too.
The characters and animations are great. Controls are fine, although precise jumping felt a bit difficult, but that might just need some practice.
The portal effects (shrinking, growing, simulating drug usage) are very cool.
The second and third level already show the great puzzle potential of your mechanics. I love it. Smiley
Physics are kinda wonky at times (like stuck vibrating under a box), but I didn't expect anything less from unity physics. You'd be surprised at how many problems I have with that stupid taxi just landing somewhere...
 
Great work!

PS: I've found the cat. Did I win something?
« Last Edit: November 10, 2019, 01:07:09 AM by RealScaniX » Logged

diegzumillo
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« Reply #521 on: November 09, 2019, 12:29:10 PM »

I checked it out briefly.
It didn't instantly crash, so that is good. Smiley
Z to jump was pretty unexpected. I had to look it up in the description after trying out all common jump keys like W, Up, Space. Z is at a dumb location on the German keyboard, too.
The characters and animations are great. Controls are fine, although precise jumping felt a bit difficult, but that might just need some practice.
The portal effects (shrinking, growing, simulating drug usage) are very cool.
The second and third level already show the great puzzle potential of your mechanics. I love it. Smiley
Physics are kinda wonky at times (like stuck vibrating under a box), but I didn't expect anything less from unity physics. You'd be surprised at how many problems I have with that stupid taxi just landing somewhere...
 
Great work!

PS: I've found the cat. Did I won something?


Thanks! I am happy you made it through with less glitches than I expected. The physics is a lot wonkier than usual Unity because it's my implementation. I'm trying to make it less wonky. But a few boxes clipping through walls will be inevitable.

Z and X are standard for platformers that use arrow keys to move. At least it was before everyone had a controller too. But remapping is definitely required to cover all keyboard layouts.

About the platforming controls. I am over the fence about its implementation. Right now you keep the momentum when you jump, which makes it slightly harder than 100% control while jumping.

The cat is a work in progress lol I was working on making that level completely working for the actual game, he's part of the story. But I started to feel overwhelmed, so I dropped it and decided to make the tech demo instead. Outside the view there is also a spaceship landing. Seriously. But that one was too big and distracting so I moved out of the way at least.

Thanks for the feedback! I really appreciate it!
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JobLeonard
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« Reply #522 on: November 09, 2019, 06:09:42 PM »

If you export a Linux version I can pre-alpha test that platform for you Wink
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Ishi
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« Reply #523 on: November 09, 2019, 09:25:13 PM »

I tried the demo! No technical issues here - seemed to run fine throughout at around 100-500 fps. Coffee

I was happy to discover that alt+enter changed the game into windowed mode which made it easier to take notes while playing Smiley

Is the 800x600 resolution something you are specifically targetting or is it just what the game happens to currently use?

In terms of minor glitches you are probably well aware of, the player sprite flickers a bit when going between areas of different scale:



The controls / player movement does feel a bit unwieldy at the moment - it has that 'physics platformer' feel that prevents me from being confident that I have full control over the character. Collisions like this are really unexpected when they happen:


I'm just pressing jump and getting rebounded off the corner. It's accurate physics-wise, but if it sent me down a pit back to an earlier part of the level I'd feel really screwed over.

Jumping also often felt quite woolly, in that I wasn't really sure if I was connecting properly with the ground before jumping (especially when landing on a physics crate). Although I later realised that the player can currently jump infinitely which probably explains those issues.

I really enjoyed the smaller simpler levels where there's a clear goal, figuring out the path to take around the level is great fun. I think that having a variety of level lengths and styles is a good idea, though! Even in bigger levels if you're able to give the players hints as to the next route forwards for them to work towards it should help prevent them getting lost. I imagine the apple pickups will be helpful for this! (Just thought, is apple a cannibal? Or does the worm eat the small apples along the way?)

Overall it was fun to try the game out for myself after seeing the gifs! It has so much potential for fun mind-mending spaces, especially given that each object carries its own sense of gravity throughout.
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oahda
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« Reply #524 on: November 10, 2019, 06:11:58 AM »

If you export a Linux version I can pre-alpha test that platform for you Wink
Ditto for Mac! Would love to play!! Kiss

is apple a cannibal
I'm still so confused as to why people's first interpretation is that the pickups get eaten, it had never crossed my mind, to me they were just, well, picked up. Cheesy
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diegzumillo
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« Reply #525 on: November 10, 2019, 08:57:26 AM »

If you export a Linux version I can pre-alpha test that platform for you Wink
Ditto for Mac! Would love to play!! Kiss

is apple a cannibal
I'm still so confused as to why people's first interpretation is that the pickups get eaten, it had never crossed my mind, to me they were just, well, picked up. Cheesy

I could do a quick and dirty linux version and an untested mac version too, so I did. Mac Linux. I was going to say "let me fix the demo some more, then I'll upload updated versions" but this week I will be moving to another apartment and won't get anything done, so I changed my mind mid-sentence! And I don'y believe in backspsce.

I tried the demo! No technical issues here - seemed to run fine throughout at around 100-500 fps. Coffee

I was happy to discover that alt+enter changed the game into windowed mode which made it easier to take notes while playing Smiley

Is the 800x600 resolution something you are specifically targetting or is it just what the game happens to currently use?

In terms of minor glitches you are probably well aware of, the player sprite flickers a bit when going between areas of different scale:



The controls / player movement does feel a bit unwieldy at the moment - it has that 'physics platformer' feel that prevents me from being confident that I have full control over the character. Collisions like this are really unexpected when they happen:


I'm just pressing jump and getting rebounded off the corner. It's accurate physics-wise, but if it sent me down a pit back to an earlier part of the level I'd feel really screwed over.

Jumping also often felt quite woolly, in that I wasn't really sure if I was connecting properly with the ground before jumping (especially when landing on a physics crate). Although I later realised that the player can currently jump infinitely which probably explains those issues.

I really enjoyed the smaller simpler levels where there's a clear goal, figuring out the path to take around the level is great fun. I think that having a variety of level lengths and styles is a good idea, though! Even in bigger levels if you're able to give the players hints as to the next route forwards for them to work towards it should help prevent them getting lost. I imagine the apple pickups will be helpful for this! (Just thought, is apple a cannibal? Or does the worm eat the small apples along the way?)

Overall it was fun to try the game out for myself after seeing the gifs! It has so much potential for fun mind-mending spaces, especially given that each object carries its own sense of gravity throughout.

Thanks for the feedback, Ishi! I'm happy the game performs well.

The graphical glitches are something I am really tired of. It is definitely on my to-do list, as well as tweaking the movement code to either jumping not inheriting momentum or arrows having less control over it. Right now you jump and it's hard to land where you want.

The resolution is lazily enforced for now. Although this isn't the kind of game where resolution matters that much I see no reason to lock it. The aspect ration is another story. I don't want anything meant to be outside the view to show up on someone's unreasonably wide screen. I haven't put much thought into it yet.

The infinite jump is a cheat I left on. The ground detection is working fine most of the time, (except for a single frame crossing the rooms). What you're seeing is probably when you land on other physicsbodies. The problem with landing on physicsbodies is that the animation flickers back and forth between grounded and falling if you AND the object are falling, making it look weird. I still need to come up with a solution for this. But you are well grounded, even if the wrong animation is playing.

As for the wonky physics-based movement, there isn't a whole lot I can do. Considering the game has no hazards anymore I believe it won't be a reason for rage quits. I don't even plan on having tricky platforming either. I want the puzzle to be the main thing.

And for everyone asking about apple cannibalism, they will only be on the first level. This first level is going to have a dialogue going while you move through the level. The conversation is about making the largest pie in the world, but since apple is eating the apples they won't be able to make the pie so instead apple now wants to eat the largest number of apples any apple has ever eaten etc Apple cannibalism will probably be mentioned. The quest for apple pie gets interrupted by the quest for eating a large number of apples which gets interrupted by asshole cat now competing for apples which gets interrupted by interdimensional aliens. All in the first level. This is the point I decided to maybe just put some levels together and call it a tech demo. One thing at a time, right! this is how you deal with overwhelming plans.

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JobLeonard
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« Reply #526 on: November 10, 2019, 11:22:28 AM »

I could do a quick and dirty linux version and an untested mac version too, so I did. Mac Linux. I was going to say "let me fix the demo some more, then I'll upload updated versions" but this week I will be moving to another apartment and won't get anything done, so I changed my mind mid-sentence! And I don'y believe in backspsce.
Eh, we're bugtesting for you anyway, so I would ditch that "let me fix it first" mentality Tongue
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JobLeonard
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« Reply #527 on: November 10, 2019, 11:25:35 AM »

Is the game supposed to be played upside down? Wink
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diegzumillo
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« Reply #528 on: November 10, 2019, 11:52:29 AM »



I.. well... yeah! you just found the secret turn-the-game-upsidedown button!
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RealScaniX
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« Reply #529 on: November 10, 2019, 02:27:58 PM »

Is the game supposed to be played upside down? Wink

You've just rotated the screenshot, haven't you? =P
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JobLeonard
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« Reply #530 on: November 10, 2019, 02:40:10 PM »

I put the browser window in the screenshot to show that I didn't. Also, the windowed mode apparently does not work on Linux yet
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RealScaniX
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« Reply #531 on: November 11, 2019, 01:18:10 AM »

I put the browser window in the screenshot to show that I didn't. Also, the windowed mode apparently does not work on Linux yet

Huh? Hehe, yeah... right... Wink

« Last Edit: November 11, 2019, 07:13:40 AM by RealScaniX » Logged

JobLeonard
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« Reply #532 on: November 11, 2019, 03:25:29 AM »

I'm getting "forbidden" errors on you image btw
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diegzumillo
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« Reply #533 on: November 11, 2019, 11:30:03 AM »

Now that I have a bunch of feedback I have no time to work on it for at least a week, possibly more. So for my own sake I am going to write down what I want to focus on when I resume work.

Touchdown flags are being properly set, however the physics engine isn't reliable to use. Any frame where the contact is lost it doesn't flag contact. If I replace this for a trigger volume to check the result will be a more lenient contact flag but a less reliable jump mechanics. Possibly. I did a quick test here for a second flag specifically for ground that checks if it was previously on, and prevents the player from being ungrounded for single frames. It's a hack but works. It also requires tweaking jumping parameters though. So I have to work on... all of this.

Portal transition still have annoying glitches. By quickly messing here I managed to reduce the glitching to just blink. It's slightly less jarring but still distracting. I might have to be more careful with the order of functions running, maybe instead of using Update and stuff like that, just define delegates and call them at the proper order. That sounds like a pain in the ass.

Tweak player movement. Either don't keep momentum when jumping and just allow complete control over the character at all times. OR keep momentum, sure, but don't let a single tap in the other direction completely revert momentum. That makes it hard to control.

Find a more elegant solution to being grounded on top of physics objects.

I'll push fixing mac and linux for waaaay later on.

Thanks again for all the help, yall  Coffee I'm off to put stuff on boxes now.
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« Reply #534 on: November 11, 2019, 07:06:58 PM »

I turn my back for five dang minutes and I miss a demo!



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oahda
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« Reply #535 on: November 11, 2019, 11:58:19 PM »

Yassss, I finally got to play some App-- I mean, New curved space! Kiss Can confirm the Mac build works fine. Almost had me playing forever by cleverly restarting after the final level all silently. Ninja

Besides that one place Ishi showed, the transition through portals felt completely seamless to me! Wasn't able to tell at all anywhere else as I was scurrying around. So cool to finally see all the morphing in action.

My only criticism so far would be centred around the jumping: I felt I lacked the air control I expect from other 2D platformers, and that the platforms/levels just weren't placed/spaced according to Apple's arc. Felt like they were too close together, so when I was playing all speedy-runny and continually running in a direction while jumping I would overshoot the platforms. Hard to tell if the arc is too big or if the spacing is too small. Maybe a bit of both?

My already existing hype has increased tenfold!
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JobLeonard
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« Reply #536 on: November 12, 2019, 02:57:06 AM »

Tangent: I'm somewhat surprised there isn't a 2D platform game physics wiki out there yet that collects all possible variants, pitfalls and edge-cases. One could easily write an entire book on it, I'm sure.
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diegzumillo
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« Reply #537 on: November 12, 2019, 05:31:56 AM »

I turn my back for five dang minutes and I miss a demo!



tiney

I was wondering when someone would exploit the infinite jump to shrink indefinitely (until the game bugs out) haha.
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diegzumillo
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« Reply #538 on: November 12, 2019, 05:34:36 AM »

Yassss, I finally got to play some App-- I mean, New curved space! Kiss Can confirm the Mac build works fine. Almost had me playing forever by cleverly restarting after the final level all silently. Ninja

Besides that one place Ishi showed, the transition through portals felt completely seamless to me! Wasn't able to tell at all anywhere else as I was scurrying around. So cool to finally see all the morphing in action.

My only criticism so far would be centred around the jumping: I felt I lacked the air control I expect from other 2D platformers, and that the platforms/levels just weren't placed/spaced according to Apple's arc. Felt like they were too close together, so when I was playing all speedy-runny and continually running in a direction while jumping I would overshoot the platforms. Hard to tell if the arc is too big or if the spacing is too small. Maybe a bit of both?

My already existing hype has increased tenfold!

Thanks for the feedback, princessa! I'm still amazed it worked on mac. I don't even have a mac, I just clicked the build button, zipped everything it made and crossed my fingers.

Tangent: I'm somewhat surprised there isn't a 2D platform game physics wiki out there yet that collects all possible variants, pitfalls and edge-cases. One could easily write an entire book on it, I'm sure.

I know, right. The information is out there but weirdly not organized. Everyone needs to go through the same process and learn the same things by scouring over the internet.
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« Reply #539 on: November 19, 2019, 07:30:11 AM »

(Just thought, is apple a cannibal? Or does the worm eat the small apples along the way?)
I remember an issue of Spider-Gwen wherein the title character was talking to (an imaginary) Spider-Ham, who was eating a corndog. She asked him if that was cannibalism, and his response (quoted from memory) was, "I'm a cartoon. Cannibalism would be if I was eating Porky Pig."

I assume the same principle applies to our dear Apple as well.
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