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June 05, 2020, 04:54:39 PM

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TIGSource ForumsCommunityDevLogsApple and Worm: Patching Holes In Spacetime
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Author Topic: Apple and Worm: Patching Holes In Spacetime  (Read 44760 times)
diegzumillo
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« Reply #600 on: May 21, 2020, 05:48:25 PM »

Day 16

Finally, the portass is fully implemented! (it's still missing code that handles scale changes but that's trivial and I don't need it yet)



I found it extremely amusing how the object is flinged out of the butt with force. It was accidental because the object is re-enabled while colliding with the butt. But I don't want to fix it. It's funny.

Simple stuff done with way too many steps. Maybe I'm not clever enough to see the easy solution, maybe it's another instance of things that are complicated because of Unity. Whatever the case, it's done now.

It's super early and this wasn't a whole lot of work so I will probably do some more stuff and get back here for DAY 16 part II. I think I'll work on a simple level with buttportals. Portass is clever but is less funny I don't know why.
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JobLeonard
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« Reply #601 on: May 22, 2020, 06:56:51 AM »

This somehow feels extremely nineties in the best possible way Kiss

Quote
I found it extremely amusing how the object is flinged out of the butt with force. It was accidental because the object is re-enabled while colliding with the butt.
This is basically the game physics equivalent to the slingshot effect.

(actually, I think it kinda is)
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diegzumillo
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« Reply #602 on: May 22, 2020, 05:51:04 PM »

This somehow feels extremely nineties in the best possible way Kiss

Quote
I found it extremely amusing how the object is flinged out of the butt with force. It was accidental because the object is re-enabled while colliding with the butt.
This is basically the game physics equivalent to the slingshot effect.

(actually, I think it kinda is)

Thanks :D
Maybe it's worth tweaking the slingshot so it at least goes in the direction the butt is facing.

There was no day 16 part II, to no one's surprise. Today was a little weird. I was... wait, let me do this right.

Day 17

OK * ahem * I spent a couple of hours trying to figure out why a thing wasn't working then I got it working. Not exactly an amazing accomplishment but it was work and I'm counting it in for the levelthon. But I also made a level! The problem is that it's a super boring level and I am so disappointed with the buttportal now. In my head it was such a game changer, it would open so many puzzle possibilities. In practice I could not find a single decent use for it. It brings nothing interesting to the table as is. The only use is to get to a section apple cannot go but that's not interesting. Making a portal to go through a wall is the same as not having a wall.

There are a few very specific instances where they could be interesting but they are very few and I couldn't fit any of them in my two test levels yet.

Anyway, the day wasn't completely lost. Besides bug hunting I made a quality of life editor extension here. And it opened my eyes to a fundamental design problem with the game: Apple lacks interacting abilities. Every puzzle requires the ability to manipulate the level in some ways, it can't be just navigation.

Apple can push, sure, that does allow for some Sokoban level of puzzle. In theory, at least. In practice that does not work as well in 2D platformer style with physics instead of grid precision box pushing. The few puzzles I have already involve pushing dynamic objects in some way or another; usually to make a platform to jump on.

Long story short, I am going to implement the ability to swallow objects and spit them out. No power absorption (yet) because that would be too complicated, but holding objects is simple enough to implement and I truly hope it would increase the puzzly juices.

Being able to move objects anywhere should open up the possibilities. But I am totally accepting some suggestions though. I remember implementing an interesting version of this in the first iteration of the game; the worm as a hookshot of sorts. You could swing on stuff and drag other stuff. You could use that to catch a ride on objects falling up, for example. However, implementing that on the new implementation would be much harder, considering everything uses my physics engine and the room intersections are the nightmare of edge cases.

Another thought: maybe swallowing an object should consider the mass and frame of reference of the object. You can only swallow smaller things, obviously, but they can still be heavier. So a bowling ball with a different frame of reference might make apple float or slide to the side. Which is a nice additional mechanic to the ability of relocating objects in the level.

I am having a big deja vu here. I am certain this design insight came to me many times already, and the conclusions were the same. The joys of ADHD never stop.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 06:00:23 PM by diegzumillo » Logged

NovaSilisko
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« Reply #603 on: May 22, 2020, 06:37:36 PM »

What about an extension of the push mechanic for forcibly whacking his face against a button to trigger whatever level sequencing?
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JobLeonard
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« Reply #604 on: May 23, 2020, 04:24:14 AM »

Quote
I am having a big deja vu here. I am certain this design insight came to me many times already, and the conclusions were the same. The joys of ADHD never stop.
Ah, you too? That explains why this design process sounds all too familiar to me as well :p

Quote
So a bowling ball with a different frame of reference might make apple float or slide to the side. Which is a nice additional mechanic to the ability of relocating objects in the level.
This sounds really cool, but also a potential edge-case nightmare.

So the idea would be to save Apple's reference frame, apply the swallowed object's reference frame to Apple instead until the object has been spit out?
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Prinsessa
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« Reply #605 on: May 23, 2020, 06:06:02 AM »

Truly did I not expect the portapottymouth when I first started following this thread, but hey. Shocked

Kirby mechanics sound interesting! The hookshot also sounds very cool but if it's too hard to implement with the weird physics perhaps it's best left aside, yeah. Cry
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« Reply #606 on: May 23, 2020, 08:33:57 AM »

Truly did I not expect the portapottymouth when I first started following this thread, but hey. Shocked

Kirby mechanics sound interesting! The hookshot also sounds very cool but if it's too hard to implement with the weird physics perhaps it's best left aside, yeah. Cry

portalpottymouth   :D
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diegzumillo
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« Reply #607 on: May 23, 2020, 08:41:30 AM »

Truly did I not expect the portapottymouth when I first started following this thread, but hey. Shocked

Kirby mechanics sound interesting! The hookshot also sounds very cool but if it's too hard to implement with the weird physics perhaps it's best left aside, yeah. Cry

Honest question: is butt a no no word? English is not my native language, I assumed it was safe. If the game had an age rating of sorts, would butt raise its level? I could swap for something that stands for it like that song BRICK... HAAAAAAUUUUUUSSSSSS

Quote
I am having a big deja vu here. I am certain this design insight came to me many times already, and the conclusions were the same. The joys of ADHD never stop.
Ah, you too? That explains why this design process sounds all too familiar to me as well :p

Quote
So a bowling ball with a different frame of reference might make apple float or slide to the side. Which is a nice additional mechanic to the ability of relocating objects in the level.
This sounds really cool, but also a potential edge-case nightmare.

So the idea would be to save Apple's reference frame, apply the swallowed object's reference frame to Apple instead until the object has been spit out?

I suspect it would be rather trivial to implement! because all I have to do is add another force to apple corresponding to the weight of the swallowed object. Hopefully there won't be any surprises there.
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« Reply #608 on: May 23, 2020, 08:50:38 AM »

What about an extension of the push mechanic for forcibly whacking his face against a button to trigger whatever level sequencing?

Some simple pressure switches that control on/off blocks could be a great addition!

Swallowing objects sounds like it has potential.

I think another simple addition that could help to make the level design more flexible is the option of needing to collect one or more keys to open the exit. This avoids you always needing to put the goal somewhere out of reach and allows some there-and-back-again (or 'folded') level design. I'm picturing the key as being a physics object that can do things like press switches but not one that Apple collides with - so can't stand on it or push it around.

Possibly rather than instantly collecting the key it has to be swallowed - meaning that while you carry the key you can't carry other object.

Some ideas:

  • You start by the exit. The key is on a pressure switch. Once you collect the key, the switch is no longer pressed, which toggles some on/off blocks - changing the route back to the exit. Could open up routes to change orientation that weren't accessible before.
  • You're in one room with a butt, and the mouth and key are in another room. You must press switches to remotely guide the mouth through the other room's obstacles and eat the key, which will then be 'delivered' to you.
  • A level with no way to change orientation, but the key begins in a different orientation to you. You must repeatedly swallow and unswallow it to steal its orientation properties when needed to traverse the level and reach the exit.
  • A key is in a crate that must somehow be destroyed to get the key (this is a bit of a vague idea that would rely on the addition of more mechanics, but would be a way to essentially turn the key into a fully collidable physics object)

I'm no expert at puzzle design but hopefully this may serve as some inspiration.
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Prinsessa
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« Reply #609 on: May 23, 2020, 08:53:10 AM »

Not my native language either but I don't think so! Didn't mean you were the potty mouth, but the creature! Cheesy
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« Reply #610 on: May 23, 2020, 10:03:21 AM »

I really like the idea of swallowing an object to copy its physics properties until you spit it out. I'm not such a big fan of Kirby-style copy abilities. I think that would be too much for the player to keep track of. I could be wrong.

I think using Worm as a grappling hook of some kind is also a good idea. It makes Worm more involved, so it really is "Apple and Worm" and not "Apple (also Worm is here)." I don't know if you want to be able to use him to hookshot onto arbitrary surfaces, though, because that would make it too easy to short-circuit your navigation puzzles. I'd be inclined to use him to grab and throw NPCs like the little spring dudes or the buttportals.

Actually, you could just combine the two: When you want to grab an NPC or object, you can use Worm to extend your reach. Perhaps you have to use Worm if you need to grab the mouth end of a buttportal, because if you get too close, it will swallow you before you can swallow it.
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diegzumillo
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« Reply #611 on: May 23, 2020, 03:53:45 PM »

What about an extension of the push mechanic for forcibly whacking his face against a button to trigger whatever level sequencing?

Some simple pressure switches that control on/off blocks could be a great addition!

Swallowing objects sounds like it has potential.

I think another simple addition that could help to make the level design more flexible is the option of needing to collect one or more keys to open the exit. This avoids you always needing to put the goal somewhere out of reach and allows some there-and-back-again (or 'folded') level design. I'm picturing the key as being a physics object that can do things like press switches but not one that Apple collides with - so can't stand on it or push it around.

Possibly rather than instantly collecting the key it has to be swallowed - meaning that while you carry the key you can't carry other object.

Some ideas:

  • You start by the exit. The key is on a pressure switch. Once you collect the key, the switch is no longer pressed, which toggles some on/off blocks - changing the route back to the exit. Could open up routes to change orientation that weren't accessible before.
  • You're in one room with a butt, and the mouth and key are in another room. You must press switches to remotely guide the mouth through the other room's obstacles and eat the key, which will then be 'delivered' to you.
  • A level with no way to change orientation, but the key begins in a different orientation to you. You must repeatedly swallow and unswallow it to steal its orientation properties when needed to traverse the level and reach the exit.
  • A key is in a crate that must somehow be destroyed to get the key (this is a bit of a vague idea that would rely on the addition of more mechanics, but would be a way to essentially turn the key into a fully collidable physics object)

I'm no expert at puzzle design but hopefully this may serve as some inspiration.

Keys are a good idea. And I see your point of making them physics objects that you can't push, forcing you to swallow instead. Because swallowing one item at a time is a good constraint and if I can push one I might be able to cheese some puzzles out!
I really like the idea of swallowing an object to copy its physics properties until you spit it out. I'm not such a big fan of Kirby-style copy abilities. I think that would be too much for the player to keep track of. I could be wrong.

It would be too much for me, that's for sure! every thing would have its own effect to be coded with special animation. Nah.

And in the Day 18, he rested. Kind of like god, but instead of seventh it was the eighteenth, and instead of accomplishing things he very much did not accomplish things. Also it would not be the only or last rest day. I spent longer than I would like to admit searching for a religious looking font to make this joke. It has to be a safe font that everyone has installed.

Not a particularly hard day or anything. It's getting cold, finally, it's raining. So I'm just recharging  Coffee
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diegzumillo
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« Reply #612 on: May 24, 2020, 06:06:13 PM »

Day 19
Oh the irony. Yesterday, rest day, I had a sudden increase in my blood pressure to slightly dangerous levels. That was late night, so today, not rest day, I had to work with no coffee or ritalin so I won't die or whatever. So I ask you to read this entry as slowly as possible as to match my typing speed.

Anyway, I started implementing swallowing mechanic. I thought it would be a lot harder because player controller works with physicsbody but it's highly constrained. However it's as simple as adding an additional force to it. My first tests here were successful. You can eat something with a frame of reference rotated, and feels like moving in strong winds, or it makes you floaty. Or heavier too, but I don't know how that would help.
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Ishi
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« Reply #613 on: May 24, 2020, 09:49:19 PM »

Day 19
Oh the irony. Yesterday, rest day, I had a sudden increase in my blood pressure to slightly dangerous levels. That was late night, so today, not rest day, I had to work with no coffee or ritalin so I won't die or whatever. So I ask you to read this entry as slowly as possible as to match my typing speed.

Anyway, I started implementing swallowing mechanic. I thought it would be a lot harder because player controller works with physicsbody but it's highly constrained. However it's as simple as adding an additional force to it. My first tests here were successful. You can eat something with a frame of reference rotated, and feels like moving in strong winds, or it makes you floaty. Or heavier too, but I don't know how that would help.

Please look after yourself! Beer! <- using beer emoji since you can't have coffee.

It sounds good. Making the player heavier could have uses like being able to push larger objects (by standing on them while in a perpendicular reference frame) or something along those lines. Also as a limitation that prevents you from jumping higher while carrying the heavy object that you need to transport.
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« Reply #614 on: May 25, 2020, 12:20:39 AM »

That's really scary, take care!!
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JobLeonard
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« Reply #615 on: May 25, 2020, 03:12:58 AM »

Oh damn, hang in there.

So I also have had high blood pressure issues (ritalin is a bitch), so I hope you don't mind that I share these tips of what I figured out

- aim towards a plant-based diet as much as possible and avoid bacon and honestly pork in general (causes arterial stiffening - this isn't about veganism; regardless of moral viewpoints on eating animals, the science seems to indicate that more leafy greens and less meat are good for arterial health)
- avoid mayonaise and fatty sauces (arterial stiffening again)
- change sugar-intake to fruit-based forms (avoids sugar spikes, plus dietary fibers and polyphenols happen to be really good for us ADHD types)
- berries, in particular lots of blueberries (really high in polyphenols)
- green tea, brewed at low temperature, meaning 70 °C or lower (also reduces arterial stiffness)
- one cup of hibiscus tea per day (has even better effects than green tea, but also has higher levels of aluminum and manganese)
- avoid dairy products (milk blocks the absorption of all the nutrients of the foods mentioned before that give blood pressure benefits)
- crushed flax seeds, daily, one to two tablespooons  (reduces arterial stiffness). Warning: your gut flora will need to adjust to the extra fibers, so at first you will need to go to the bathroom more often
- wakame salad and other seaweed foods absorb salt in the gut, so can help with blood pressure that way (as long as you don't add to much salt via sauces again)

The "polyphenol good for ADHD" thing I got from a ADDitude webinar, everything else came from nutritionfacts.org. I admit that the guy has an annoying presentation style, but all videos have a transcript and the cited articles seem legit. Also I really have noticed the difference myself after trying to do these things myself. Here's a few examples:

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/cold-steeping-green-tea/

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/how-much-hibiscus-tea-is-too-much/

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/benefits-of-blueberries-for-blood-pressure-may-be-blocked-by-yogurt/
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diegzumillo
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« Reply #616 on: May 25, 2020, 05:45:53 PM »

Thanks, everyone. And thanks for the tips, job. But jesus, I am doing so many things wrong. My diet consists of meat and sugar, with sporadic doses of milky coffee. Fruits require a more involved hygienization procedure so I ditched them during the pandemic.

But what really messes me up is not being able to exercise, because can't go to gym right now, and sleeping less because of the newborn.

Today I went to get groceries and got myself some polyphenols, green and hibiscus tea. I'll try to reduce sugar intake as well.

Anyhow, we are not here to talk about my health; What matters is videogames and accidental cartoon pornography! Speaking of which, the game now has an input action named "swallowAndSpit". I swear to god this is all unintentional.

Day 20

I'm gonna go ahead and file this under deceptively complicated. Who would have thought that press button to swallow, then press it again to spit, would be complicated? In practice it involves setting up flags and timers because you don't want to spit immediately after swallowing; no, you want to set up a flag that waits for the key to be up. Then a similar thing with a timer so you don't immediately put in your mouth what you just spat.

Let me reiterate: unintentional.

Then I also messed up frames of reference, as usual.

In this gif I swallow cubes on different orientations and test the effects. Pretty neat! The spit positioning could be improved to reduce stress on those physicsbodies intersecting.



I'm excited about the possibilities!

Edit: more frame of reference bugs! the cube that was falling to the right is now falling to the left after being spat out. Also, spat is a word, right? Sounds weird.
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« Reply #617 on: May 26, 2020, 02:25:43 AM »

Yeah, spat is a word Smiley

So after he swallows a box, is the net weight the sum of his own and that of the box? Is that how I should read it?

Also, do any transformations to Apple also apply to the box? Like, if he turns his reference frame 90 degrees by walking to the right and then spits out the box, what happens?

(don't freak out over the dietary thing, the stress itself will give you even more blood pressure issues Tongue. Just remember the tips and know that aiming for them when possible will be helpful)
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diegzumillo
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« Reply #618 on: May 26, 2020, 03:27:03 AM »

So after he swallows a box, is the net weight the sum of his own and that of the box? Is that how I should read it?

Yup. Today I will replace the apple animations with one where he has his mouth full, to make that more clear.
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« Reply #619 on: May 26, 2020, 04:04:37 AM »

Looking good! I read in my green tea leaves great things for the future of this mechanic!! Wizard

Also I'm always happy to help with plant-based cooking! Well, hello there!
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