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[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

I think writers can only really bias your impressions of a game by a certain amount* and it's generally far less than the other contributing disciplines. i.e. if the graphics are AWFUL then that can really ruin a game, but if the writing sucks balls then that'll only reduce your enjoyment by a lesser amount (and in some cases, can actually add to it - i.e. Resident Evil).

Another thing is that much like films, the writing in a game will be affected by the development process massively. If the writer has continual involvement in the game (which is the ideal scenario) and they can knuckle down and roll with the punches then this can often be a good thing as it can reduce issues like ludo-narrative dissonance, and in these cases the writer is obviously very important. In other cases the developers simply don't give a fig about the writing (sometimes due to financial reasons, like the cost of re-recording dialogue) and so they'll just say "sod it", in which case the writer is arguably less important.

So, there's your answer: not-very to very-very.



*that amount obviously depending on the genre.

the writing in resident evil 1 wasn't bad. what was bad was the voice acting and translation

[DrDerekDoctors]

I'd have to bow to your superior Japanese comprehension skills, there, as I don't speak the lingo.

[Graham-]

the writing in pre-voice-acted FFs was everything to me. when I reflect I realize that the amount of writing, compared to total game time, is quite small. but that's the part I always thought about. I thought about what the characters were saying.

[mysteriosum]

the writing in pre-voice-acted FFs was everything to me. when I reflect I realize that the amount of writing, compared to total game time, is quite small. but that's the part I always thought about. I thought about what the characters were saying.

Agreed. Lately, I've been finding myself caring only for games that have an engaging story. So I would argue that writing in a game matters more to some people than others.

If you have a game with super-tight mechanics and great graphics but shitty writing, you'll appeal to gamers who like tight mechanics and/or graphics but don't care about writing.

If your writing is good, you might rope in someone who doesn't care about graphics, but is concerned with the quality of writing.

Having a complete package will net you the widest audience *cough*Bastion*cough*

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

i actually didn't like bastion because the story was so bad. i liked the gameplay and the graphics, but the story of bastion was really boring to me

i think you are right about it mattering to some people and not others. it also matters more in some genres than others. and, perhaps most importantly, having a bad story is worse than not having a story at all. the order of preference is

good story > no story > bad story

[Graham-]

the writing is what gives my sprites "character." then I want to win at battles to see what happens to them, so I focus, and the joy of overcoming a challenge is - coming in and - accented by the next bit of content.

[mysteriosum]

i actually didn't like bastion because the story was so bad. i liked the gameplay and the graphics, but the story of bastion was really boring to me

i think you are right about it mattering to some people and not others. it also matters more in some genres than others. and, perhaps most importantly, having a bad story is worse than not having a story at all. the order of preference is

good story > no story > bad story

If the story is objectively awful, I must agree. There have surely been times when a publisher said, "Okay, get rid of the story, it's really bad."

In the case of Bastion, I loved the story, but you thought it was a bad. If it didn't have a story, I might never have played it. The way it is, they got me as a customer and lost you because of the story. I know for a fact I'm not the only one who thought the story was good. So the term 'bad story' does lose some sway here, don't you think?

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

well, just because some people think a bad story is good relative to the other stories they've experienced doesn't mean it isn't objectively bad to anyone with a wider experience in stories. gamers are easy to please in the story department because most of them are young and don't read books

my guess would be that if you experience many more good stories and came back and played bastion again you'd agree that the story is bad, in the same way that as a kid i used to think many games and books movies and television shows had good stories and then later realized i was wrong. your profile says you are 24. i'm 35 -- that's 11 more years of time i've had to experience stories (age isn't absolute here since the % of time someone dedicates to reading stories can differ, but it still matters in a statistical sense)

so i think whether someone sees a story as good or bad or not depends on that person's experience with stories (because they can only judge it relative to whatever else they've experienced), but that doesn't mean it isn't much more of an objective thing if the basis of comparison is the same

for example, i'm old enough to remember soul blazer, which was a snes game with a similar theme of the world disappearing and the player having to put it back together again, and even though soul blazer's story wasn't all that great (i'd never hold it up as an example of a good story), i'd still put it much higher than bastion's. the characters were more memorable to me, and it dealt with the idea of a disappearing world with more care and detail. although sequels to soul blazer included illusion of gaia and terranigma, both of which i *would* hold up as examples of games with good stories

and that's not to say that people with the same basis of experience and age still don't disagree on the quality of stories, they still do. it's just that they tend to agree much more than they disagree; the disagreements are the exception

[Muz]

Book stories and game stories are very different. I'd say Bastion's storytelling was very... interactive. But haven't played the full thing so can't say if it was really good or bad. I liked stories from Live a Live, Mafia, Starcraft, because they fit into the gameplay very well.

Baldur's Gate 2 had a more outstanding story. But it became repetitive and boring when you replay the game so it's actually a case of where the story made the game more boring. The 'novel' equivalent of a game is probably in the Final Fantasy series. The cost in both of these is that the gameplay was pushed aside to make way for the story. The epic RPG genre and especially the JRPG becomes a carrier of good stories diluted to last much longer than it otherwise would.

[mysteriosum]

Paul I think you've gone a little off topic - I specifically didn't call into question your opinion or mine as being valid, I simply explained that since I enjoyed the story, they gained me as a loyal customer.

If you think Bastion's story was bad, do you also think it would have been better off without it, given that the above is true?

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

i do think i would have enjoyed bastion much more if it didn't have a story, yes. the story really dragged the game down for me. there were times for example when i dreaded doing that experience point / fighting level again, because i had to hear the annoying voice overs about the "kid" and his childhood told each time i played that level. i would have preferred to just play that level without the back story voice over in the background

[mysteriosum]

Well actually, you can turn the narration volume all the way down

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

hmm, didn't know that, will try it next time. however, wouldn't that also turn down the gameplay narration? i liked that aspect of it, like when you'd fall into a hole and it'd narrate that action. i liked the idea of narrating the gameplay, but i found the narration of the back story to be tedious and distracting, so preferably i'd like to have a way to turn off the narration of back story while keeping on the narration of gameplay

[HITLER]

if leonard nimoy isn't narrating your game don't even bother

[Sved]

I actually found the narrating to be quite entertaining, the music was great and the guy speaking has a very good voice. Without these the game would be just a shooting/dodging, I feel that's the whole sound that made the game entertaining to me. Not sure if it's the concept or the content that sold it though.

Another game I found very interesting in writing was Thomas was alone. It felt like a design exercise at first, but it is really well put together. I'm halfway through and just going through the platforming to read what happens next.

[Graham-]

The story obviously isn't great in Bastion. But whatever. Game writers aren't real writers a lot of the time, and are restricted in various ways.

[cow_trix]

I personally thought the story of Bastion was fantastic. Solid, interesting, mysterious. I cared about the characters by the end. The story was the reason I played until the end, not the gameplay.

[mysteriosum]

I think this discussion merits its own thread, so I made one here.

When it comes down to it, if you're a developer and you have a story you want to tell, then goddammit tell that story and don't let anyone stop you. If it's bad, who cares. You made a story and the next one WILL be better.

EDIT: Added the actual link to the thread

[Sved]

Great writing needs to be supported by great storytelling to be able to stand out. Bastion's story may be simple (efficient?), but the delivery was great, unique and engaging.

Sword & Sworcery doesn't need any text to be played and completed, but the writing cast a totally different light on the world and changed the tone of the game to make it stand out.

Limbo has no writing but great storytelling, using the background to foretell events and introduce context to the puzzles and the gruesome deaths...

[DanDecarlo]

I feel the story is the same as music - you can play and have fun without it, but when it's good, it just makes it 20% better. On the other hand on mobile devices story is not as important, cause those games are mostly rushed, so no time for reading.