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TIGSource ForumsCommunityDevLogsLift - flight sandbox - v0.2.0
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Author Topic: Lift - flight sandbox - v0.2.0  (Read 41453 times)
locknic
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Dominic Mortlock


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« Reply #40 on: December 01, 2013, 01:04:22 AM »

Took me awhile, but I finally managed it. I went at top speed with pitch pulling upward, then tilted left a bit at the last second before leaving the runway. This managed to get me flying over the slightly shorter trees, and with my right wing going right over one of the taller ones.

Fun little sandbox. I kept running into an issue where I would stall, and all my controls would become permanently unresponsive. My plane would then almost stay completely still in the air, pointing upward, and falling downward a tiny bit at a time. Also, something about controlling the planes didn't feel quite right. Like their axis of rotation wasn't how it should be or something. Not sure what it is.
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forsy
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« Reply #41 on: December 01, 2013, 05:39:16 AM »

I can't take off with the heavy plane Sad. Well, I managed it once, but only by bouncing off the hill on the right and keeping just enough of my wing intact.

Surely the classic thing for a flying aircraft carrier is to match speeds with it, and hook on from below.

There isn't a minimum-wing-intact limit for this challenge, so I'll mark you down as a "pass".

Next challenge - fly the fast plane at top speed through the narrow mountain pass. That one is likely impossible, but good luck!

Hooks on the bottom of the carrier is a brilliant idea.
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forsy
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« Reply #42 on: December 01, 2013, 05:48:00 AM »

Took me awhile, but I finally managed it. I went at top speed with pitch pulling upward, then tilted left a bit at the last second before leaving the runway. This managed to get me flying over the slightly shorter trees, and with my right wing going right over one of the taller ones.

Fun little sandbox. I kept running into an issue where I would stall, and all my controls would become permanently unresponsive. My plane would then almost stay completely still in the air, pointing upward, and falling downward a tiny bit at a time. Also, something about controlling the planes didn't feel quite right. Like their axis of rotation wasn't how it should be or something. Not sure what it is.

That is how I managed to do it also, but just once. That is a useful but dangerous maneuver though, sometimes you will lose control and all hell breaks loose. See post above for another challenge. Note that I have not completed that one.

There are a couple issues I need to fix that will eventually prevent that stall behavior from happening. For now I just use that as an opportunity to disassemble the plane with my mouse. Thanks for pointing it out though, it is definitely a problem. 

And the last issue is due to the chase camera. Is basically an extension of the plane so it feels like the axis of rotation is off. Play a little with the orbit camera to see the difference. I should add a front bumper cam like racing games...
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devMidgard
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« Reply #43 on: December 01, 2013, 06:34:38 AM »

I can't find the way to throttle up T_T
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Pishtaco
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« Reply #44 on: December 01, 2013, 06:41:52 AM »

Fun little sandbox. I kept running into an issue where I would stall, and all my controls would become permanently unresponsive. My plane would then almost stay completely still in the air, pointing upward, and falling downward a tiny bit at a time. Also, something about controlling the planes didn't feel quite right. Like their axis of rotation wasn't how it should be or something. Not sure what it is.

I think planes can stall like that, if the centre of gravity is too far back compared to the wing. Moving the CoG forward should stop that stalled position being stable; instead the plane will tip over into a dive. A related question - can wings stall in the game, at high angles of attack? That could give you some nice flat spins.

It's possible that the heavy plane would take off more easily if the wings were tilted a bit (or had flaps!)

Hooking on to a carrier: http://www.britishpathe.com/video/first-plane-carrying-airship-aka-first-plane-carrr
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forsy
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« Reply #45 on: December 01, 2013, 07:19:45 AM »

I can't find the way to throttle up T_T

Press escape to bring up the controls menu.

I think planes can stall like that, if the centre of gravity is too far back compared to the wing. Moving the CoG forward should stop that stalled position being stable; instead the plane will tip over into a dive. A related question - can wings stall in the game, at high angles of attack? That could give you some nice flat spins.

It's possible that the heavy plane would take off more easily if the wings were tilted a bit (or had flaps!)

Hooking on to a carrier: http://www.britishpathe.com/video/first-plane-carrying-airship-aka-first-plane-carrr

Haha, that video is ridiculous... that looks like a terrible idea Smiley

The way I've coded the behavior of a wing as angle of attack increases towards a stall is pretty bad right now. It's in the realm of reality, but it should definitely be improved. I've just assumed that the odd stall behavior is due to that little bit of code that I keep neglecting.

I'm afraid to add stuff like flaps, because that is just another complexity to add as far as controls go. With all the other crazy ideas in the works, I'm not sure there is room on the keyboard for flaps Wink
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locknic
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Dominic Mortlock


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« Reply #46 on: December 01, 2013, 08:38:51 AM »

Next challenge - fly the fast plane at top speed through the narrow mountain pass. That one is likely impossible, but good luck!

Took me awhile to find what you meant by narrow mountain pass. Impossible is a bit of a strong word. I made a quick video proving my victory over the challenge, as well as to maybe show a few people the game:





Also, from playing around, I realized what I didn't like about the controls. I didn't like the way you control your pitch. I was using the xbox 360 controller, and it felt really unnatural to continue turning even after I'd let go of it. After realizing this was probably to fix the issue of the keyboard being digital input, I switched to the keyboard and got through the mountain pass on first try. Turning feels much better on keyboard, but camera control is way worse. On the controller, having an analogue stick fixes the issue of pitch strength, so I feel that pitch should reset to 0 when the analogue stick is in the center. Otherwise, you are in a constant battle of trying to get the pitch just right.

I can't find the way to throttle up T_T

Press escape to bring up the controls menu.

Doesn't work for me on the web player. Only on the downloaded version.
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forsy
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« Reply #47 on: December 01, 2013, 09:18:43 AM »

Took me awhile to find what you meant by narrow mountain pass. Impossible is a bit of a strong word. I made a quick video proving my victory over the challenge, as well as to maybe show a few people the game:





Awesome, nice job Smiley I gave it one shot and failed miserably, so I just assumed it was impossible. I need to put barriers in so you can't fly so high through there, or add some kind of collectable thing to pick up in dangerous spots.

This has sparked a competitive fire in me now... I wish I had more of a framework for these challenges in place, along with a working editor. See who can go reach a higher top speed through that pass with a custom built plane Smiley


Also, from playing around, I realized what I didn't like about the controls. I didn't like the way you control your pitch. I was using the xbox 360 controller, and it felt really unnatural to continue turning even after I'd let go of it. After realizing this was probably to fix the issue of the keyboard being digital input, I switched to the keyboard and got through the mountain pass on first try. Turning feels much better on keyboard, but camera control is way worse. On the controller, having an analogue stick fixes the issue of pitch strength, so I feel that pitch should reset to 0 when the analogue stick is in the center. Otherwise, you are in a constant battle of trying to get the pitch just right.

There are definitely differences in how the controls work between keyboard and analog controller. I think there is a higher ceiling for precision flying with the controller compared to the keyboard, but you are right the keyboard is easier to use. I haven't played with the controller much lately so it might not be acting properly at the moment as well. I will look into it.


Doesn't work for me on the web player. Only on the downloaded version.

Hmm strange, what browser are you using? Escape works fine for me in firefox. In either case, I've uploaded another build that will also bring up the menu with the 'Q' key. You might have to do a hard refresh or whatever it's called to load the new build. If you press 'Q' and the camera rotates, you have the old build still.


And finally, thanks for making that video. It is a completely different experience to see it played in a video like that. That camera really makes the flight look really unnatural, at least in the open spaces.. yuck.

Oh and one more challenge, which may or may not be challenging... try to spawn a plane at the 'drop' point and without using any throttle, glide to the 'runway' spot and land.
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« Reply #48 on: December 01, 2013, 12:09:50 PM »

Quote
Another idea is having finite resources to build your planes and having to make runs to your mining outposts to drop and/or pickup supplies in order to further your development.
Sir, it seems you have forgotten to take all of my money!  Please rectify this situation at once.
 Hand Money LeftMy Word!
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forsy
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« Reply #49 on: December 01, 2013, 08:11:55 PM »

I can't find the way to throttle up T_T

Were you able to figure this out with the new build?  Press 'Q' to bring up the help menu.

Quote
Another idea is having finite resources to build your planes and having to make runs to your mining outposts to drop and/or pickup supplies in order to further your development.
Sir, it seems you have forgotten to take all of my money!  Please rectify this situation at once.
 Hand Money LeftMy Word!

Hah, thanks. I'll get back to you on that asap  Beer!

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locknic
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Dominic Mortlock


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« Reply #50 on: December 02, 2013, 07:10:28 AM »

I can't find the way to throttle up T_T

Were you able to figure this out with the new build?  Press 'Q' to bring up the help menu.


New build fixed it for me.
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niorad
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« Reply #51 on: December 02, 2013, 07:45:05 AM »

Looks good!
I'd really like to play it but there's no PageUp/PageDown buttons on a MacBook. Could you add something similar to FlightSimulator's throttle control by numbers, like "1" is 10% Throttle, "5" is 50%, "0" is 100% and so on?
Or at least assign some other keys?

Looking forward to where this is heading!

a
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forsy
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« Reply #52 on: December 02, 2013, 02:45:37 PM »

Looks good!
I'd really like to play it but there's no PageUp/PageDown buttons on a MacBook. Could you add something similar to FlightSimulator's throttle control by numbers, like "1" is 10% Throttle, "5" is 50%, "0" is 100% and so on?
Or at least assign some other keys?

Looking forward to where this is heading!

a

Sorry about that! I like that throttle idea but because this is a sandbox, you have the ability to go full reverse throttle if you want and there isn't enough keys for that Smiley

As a temporary solution I've added W and S for throttle up and down in addition to page up and page down. Sooner than later this will have to be customizable.

This is not explained in the help screen but to go reverse you must throttle down to zero, then let go and press again to go negative. This allows you to get to zero easily without having to fiddle with it. Only useful to mess around or when trying to land quickly.

The new web build is up in the same location:
Web Player

You should see 0.0.3 in the upper right corner of the help menu, otherwise you will have to clear cache or do this: bypass cache

Thanks for checking the game out.
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forsy
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« Reply #53 on: December 05, 2013, 09:40:12 PM »

Nothing new to report, still out of town for work so I don't really have any time to work on stuff. Lots of time to think about what to do next though. Can't wait to get back home and spend some time on the really shitty prototype I provided  Roll Eyes

Just so you guys know, there will be a long term leaderboard keeping track of who did what and when, and so far there are only two names on the board - Pishtaco and Custard Games. It sounds like Pishtaco fought the good fight but barely completed the challenge and Custard Games has video proof so I think we know who the current leader is.  Smiley

There is still a challenge that has yet to be even verbally completed, so get flying!

Web demo
PC download
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dangersam
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« Reply #54 on: December 06, 2013, 11:15:12 PM »

Nice, just had a quick play of the demo!  I think this has a lot of potential, once you get the editor in, it will be a lot of fun to try building all sorts of crazy plane designs.
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forsy
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« Reply #55 on: December 15, 2013, 10:20:44 PM »

Nice, just had a quick play of the demo!  I think this has a lot of potential, once you get the editor in, it will be a lot of fun to try building all sorts of crazy plane designs.

Thanks for playing! The editor is on its way soon I hope... just working on getting enough features in for it to be worth playing around in.
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forsy
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« Reply #56 on: December 15, 2013, 10:31:20 PM »

I've just uploaded a new build - 0.0.4.

Web Player
PC (extra features)



- added a few new planes to play around with, including some attachments
- added a new and improved chase camera
- added an improved hud showing speed, throttle, and altitude

The editor is still in the works. I won't have a lot of time to work on this until the new year but I'm hoping to get a version with the editor in before then.

There is a feature that I'm using for testing to recreate the plane attachments on the fly  Corny Laugh but it isn't included in the control screen. Press 'P' to use this, but beware of the catastrophic consequences of using this if there is already an attachment in place...

edit:
I've included an updated PC build as well. This has the spawn locations and plane config files included and available for editing with your favorite text editor if you feel brave enough. They are in JSON format.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2013, 10:53:07 PM by forsy » Logged

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« Reply #57 on: December 16, 2013, 09:01:42 PM »

0.0.5 is available.

Web Player
PC



Changes:
- Added wind! Wind direction is randomized on game start. Wind speed is controlled with a slider in the menu.
- Improved the chase camera to handle the windy conditions.
- Improved stall behavior. Still acts a bit funny sometimes but it is much better than before.

Wind pretty much opens a whole new world to fly in, as you can see in the above gif, which I have titled "pissing into the wind".
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forsy
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« Reply #58 on: December 18, 2013, 07:24:03 AM »

0.0.6 is available, only in web form for now.



Changes:
- added a couple more planes (including one that goes really fast, and one with missiles that are far too heavy - see above)
- improved chase camera
- improved attachment system
- added wind speed and direction indicator to the hud

Web Player

And just a friendly reminder, if you don't see 0.0.6 in the menu then you will need to bypass your cache
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 08:05:17 AM by forsy » Logged

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« Reply #59 on: December 18, 2013, 07:31:43 PM »

Exploring some more physics based interactions...

A giant red ball of death (magnetic):



A small red ball of death (bullets):


Flying one of the bigger, heavier planes into these same scenarios has a much smaller effect on the plane due to its size.

I actually managed to get into an orbit around the magnetic ball in the first image which was really cool to watch, but I wasn't able to capture it.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 07:48:49 PM by forsy » Logged

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