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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperPlaytestingHeldric - The legend of the shoemaker - Feedback requested
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Author Topic: Heldric - The legend of the shoemaker - Feedback requested  (Read 2013 times)
astralbyte
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« on: November 18, 2013, 06:32:02 PM »

G'day all,

I'm looking for some feedback on an alpha preview of Heldric - The legend of the shoemaker.  

I'm mostly interested in feedback on these areas:
Combat
  • How enjoyable did you find the combat?
  • If you could add or change something about combat, what would it be?
  • How did you find the new powder keg game mechanic?

Overall game experience
  • Did you find the game enjoyable?
  • Was there something missing that would have made the game better?

Of course any other areas that you have feedback is also welcome.

Screenshots






Game Page
http://www.indiedb.com/games/heldric-legend-of-the-shoemaker

Trailer




Greenlight
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=190435209

System requirements
  • Processor: Core2 Duo or higher
  • Memory: 2GB RAM
  • Disk: 500MB HDD space
  • Video: Shader model 3 or higher, 512MB Video RAM
  • Windows XP or higher

(Updated download links)
Windows

Linux


And most of all thanks for your time to review it and provide feedback.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 02:43:47 PM by astralbyte » Logged

astralbyte
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« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2013, 03:41:10 PM »

Hey guys,

Since I've had trouble getting feedback, I'd like to ask another question... why? 

I noticed there are over 100 views of this thread and I've had hundreds of downloads of the alpha.  But getting feedback has been a very difficult struggle. 

So what do you think the reason for the lack of feedback?

  • Is it because of lack of interest in the game?
  • Is there something wrong with presentation?
  • Is the download too large?
  • Or is it something else?
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HyperNexus
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« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2013, 07:00:10 PM »

Okay. I played through the tutorial and the first two levels of Heldric. I decided to record some video of me playing so that you can get a clear idea of what I did. Youtube is currently processing it so I'll post again once it's online.

Some general thoughts. Graphically this game is really nice. The map menu especially, it looks like something out of a AAA game. I also really love the buttons you use in the menus. The music is okay, fits with the overall style quite well.

Your tutorial level floods you with a lot of text at the start. It's a bit hard to process everything at once. It may be better to break the text up and feed it to the player as they need it.

Some of the graphical elements in the game could better describe what they are meant to represent. For example in the bottom left corner you could have a heart or red plus sign to represent health and in the bottom right corner you could have a persons head to represent population. When I'm attack a number pops over my head representing the health points lost but the health itself is represented as a percentage. This makes it hard to judge when to run from an encounter and when to stick it out.

Combat was okay. I didn't really find it all that engaging. You just clicked and the person attacked, it seemed rather mindless. If you remove the clicking then you need something else in it's position to hold the players attention. There are a few things you could do here:
  • Allow the player to defend attacks from enemies by pressing a certain button at the right time
  • Have a system where the position of your attacks influences its effectiveness. Thereby putting pressure on the player to move to the right position.
  • Allow for the player to dive out of the way
  • Let the player command the towns folks and influence their play style

Using the bow and arrow was quite fiddly. It wasn't clear what the range of the arrow was and sometimes it just seemed as though it wasn't working. Arrows attacks received from the enemies where really over powering.

I wasn't a big fan of how you could only place your buildings in arbitrary positions. This kind of takes control away from the player and removes a possible layer of strategy to the game. There didn't seem to be much strategy behind where I placed the buildings. I also didn't understand the benefit of rotating the buildings. The barriers didn't really seem to influence the position of the enemies all that much. I also couldn't really see the result of the slow, health or death towers.

When I died the body floated around for a bit. This seemed a bit strange. The player also can't do anything while they are dead. So you're just sitting there waiting. Maybe giving them some more control here would be good. For example, letting them have free reign on the camera so they can plot strategies for when they regenerate.

That's all for me. Let me know if you have any questions. I can clarify anything that is unclear.

If I get a chance I'll try to play the other levels too.
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HyperNexus
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« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2013, 07:44:54 PM »



to the video of my playthrough.
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Ancient Account
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« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2013, 05:27:50 AM »

So what do you think the reason for the lack of feedback?
I have no idea why. This actually looks good.
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astralbyte
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« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2013, 02:42:45 PM »

Okay. I played through the tutorial and the first two levels of Heldric. I decided to record some video of me playing so that you can get a clear idea of what I did. Youtube is currently processing it so I'll post again once it's online.

Some general thoughts. Graphically this game is really nice. The map menu especially, it looks like something out of a AAA game. I also really love the buttons you use in the menus. The music is okay, fits with the overall style quite well.

Thanks for the great feedback!  I've had around 800+ downloads since I started and about five people who were not already a friend who took the time to give me feedback.  So thank you very much.

I'm glad you enjoyed the graphics and style. 

Quote
Your tutorial level floods you with a lot of text at the start. It's a bit hard to process everything at once. It may be better to break the text up and feed it to the player as they need it.

I was aware of this, and did try to break it up with those tip windows that pop up.  It still could use a bit more work to break it into smaller chunks.

Quote
Some of the graphical elements in the game could better describe what they are meant to represent. For example in the bottom left corner you could have a heart or red plus sign to represent health and in the bottom right corner you could have a persons head to represent population. When I'm attack a number pops over my head representing the health points lost but the health itself is represented as a percentage. This makes it hard to judge when to run from an encounter and when to stick it out.

The icons are a good suggestion, I'll play around with some different concepts for it.  Currently you can see the total HP by hovering over the health orb, player's health is 250 at the moment.  Villagers are 100 and enemies all vary.  If you think it's more useful, I could allow you to click the orb and see 187/250 instead of  75%.

Quote
  • Allow the player to defend attacks from enemies by pressing a certain button at the right time
  • Allow for the player to dive out of the way
These are some good possible ways improve interaction, thanks.

Quote
  • Have a system where the position of your attacks influences its effectiveness. Thereby putting pressure on the player to move to the right position.

This is kind of in place already as spiked barriers can be shot through with arrows but protect against movement.  So standing behind a spiked wall is great way to snipe enemies.  Also pulling an enemy to a shrine of damage to boost your melee attacks.  Or do you mean something else here?

Quote
  • Let the player command the towns folks and influence their play style
I'm not so sure about this one.  It makes it more of an RTS game and makes the player feel like he is in charge of the town/villagers instead of part of them.   I have been going for the feeling that he is indeed a humble shoemaker and not a king or epic hero.

Quote
Using the bow and arrow was quite fiddly. It wasn't clear what the range of the arrow was and sometimes it just seemed as though it wasn't working. Arrows attacks received from the enemies where really over powering.

I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the bow.  Most people seem to love it and I'd be happy to know where you felt it wasn't working.  It's true that if you get a large group of archers they can be deadly.  AI damage per arrow is 35, player/villager damage is 50.  How else would you recommend changing the balance?


Quote
I wasn't a big fan of how you could only place your buildings in arbitrary positions. This kind of takes control away from the player and removes a possible layer of strategy to the game. There didn't seem to be much strategy behind where I placed the buildings. I also didn't understand the benefit of rotating the buildings. The barriers didn't really seem to influence the position of the enemies all that much. I also couldn't really see the result of the slow, health or death towers.

I spent a good deal of time during the design phase to research and plan for this issue.  Initially I wanted freebuild in the game.  But during my prototype phase I came up with these pros and cons:

1) Freebuild system
+ Freedom of the player
+ More strategies
- Player will naturally try to block AI's paths
- Player will spam towers and overpower an areas
- Pathfinding issues for AI (villagers and enemies)

2) Plot system
+ Requires more player planning on what they need and the limited spots available
+ No pathfinding issues
+ No balance issues with tower spam/etc
- Less freedom and feeling of player control
- Less strategies than freebuild

One possible way to allow freebuild but prevent area spam and pathfinding is to make “road” areas where the player cannot build.  Then make towers have a large exclusion area to prevent spam.  However, at that point you're not much different the a plot system.  In the end I went with plots and I realize that many people were not going to be happy with that choice.   If you have some suggestions on improving the system then please let me know.


Quote
When I died the body floated around for a bit. This seemed a bit strange. The player also can't do anything while they are dead. So you're just sitting there waiting. Maybe giving them some more control here would be good. For example, letting them have free reign on the camera so they can plot strategies for when they regenerate.

This is a bug. Smiley   The camera should have centered on the rebirth shrine when killed.  You do have the ability to use F2 with your cursor over any target to follow that target.  But I'll look into a free-roam mode.

Quote
That's all for me. Let me know if you have any questions. I can clarify anything that is unclear.

If I get a chance I'll try to play the other levels too.

The first few levels are more of an introduction to the game.  Mudvane is more complicated, has many more plots to choose and a larger area to protect. 

Thanks again for the feedback and video.
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astralbyte
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« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2013, 02:49:45 PM »

I have no idea why. This actually looks good.

Thanks for the comment.  I've had over 800 downloads total since I started releasing the game.  And less than 1% have given me any feedback.  That just seems very low.  How much feedback do you other devs get percentage wise?
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HyperNexus
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« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2013, 11:35:07 AM »

Quote
If you think it's more useful, I could allow you to click the orb and see 187/250 instead of  75%.
In general I think hit points would be much more discernible.

Quote
So standing behind a spiked wall is great way to snipe enemies.  Also pulling an enemy to a shrine of damage to boost your melee attacks.  Or do you mean something else here?
Ah okay. I didn't figure that out with the spiked walls. No I meant more as in, your attacks would be more effective from certain arrangements. eg. If I attack you in the back I may do more damage.

Quote
How else would you recommend changing the balance?
Not exactly sure and it's probably not good for me to suggest something since I've only had limited exposure to the game.
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agersant
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« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2013, 06:32:29 PM »

I have no idea why. This actually looks good.

Thanks for the comment.  I've had over 800 downloads total since I started releasing the game.  And less than 1% have given me any feedback.  That just seems very low.  How much feedback do you other devs get percentage wise?

I don't know about downloads but regarding thread views, there's many people (like me) browsing TIG for the pretty screenshots. Not much feedback we can give except your screenshots are pretty =)
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astralbyte
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« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2013, 02:26:37 PM »

Quote from: HyperNexus
<snip lots of great feedback>

So thanks to your feedback I've added a lot of improvements and fixes to Heldric.

It would be very helpful if you have time to check out the new changes and let me know how they impact the game.

Big new changes:
  • New game mechanic for combat - explosive powder kegs
  • Replaced tutorial system with new contextual hint system
  • Improvements to the HUD and UI with new icons


And if you'd like to see the full change log for build 5087.

  •     Added new powder keg mechanic.
  •     Added new keg kill camera.
  •     Added new statistics to victory window.
  •     Added new call for help system.
  •     Added new HUD icons: arrow count, health, population, keg count, etc.
  •     Added current wave number to HUD.
  •     Added new indication on build button when in build mode.
  •     Added new notification of coin income/costs that appear above coin area.
  •     Added cooldown display when shrine/obelisk is recharging.
  •     Added plot size text to clearly see plot sizes.
  •     Added new multicolor building hi-light system to tell if structures can be upgraded at a glance.
  •     Added notification of damage resistance, damage text will say “Resist”, letting the player know to change weapons
  •     Improved build/upgrade window structure preview.
  •     Improvements to player animation controller.
  •     Improvements to NPC AI.  Enemies now charge into town center, villagers will not kite outside as much.
  •     Improvement to descriptions of structures included some tips.
  •     Improved wall plot hit box to make them easier to select.
  •     Improved building attribute display on build and upgrade windows.
  •     Changed goblins, they are now very quick and harder to chase down.
  •     Changed wolves, they are more deadly now and have smoother animations.
  •     Changed player health from 250 to 200 and reduced regeneration rate.  Be sure and use those healing shrines.
  •     Fixed bug where music would change after wave but before all enemies were killed.
  •     Fixed bug where player would get stuck inside enemies.
  •     Fixed bug where player/AI could say more than one thing at the same time.
  •     Fixed bug with damage on obelisk of smite.
  •     Fixed bug where player would warp across screen when using rebirth shrine.
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