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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperDesignBalancing Controls / Feel (platformer)
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JLJac
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« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2008, 01:03:19 AM »

You should check out this small game of mine, people are arguing about the controls and i'd like to hear your opinion. It's kind of the same topic, only this is about how to balance/implement mouse movement.

http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=3766.0

About the downward dash I think it's actually only needed if the jumps are a bit floaty. How are the jumps in your game?
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salade
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« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2008, 12:04:33 PM »

@Sparky-if you want, you can hop over to vNES.com and check out about any game. I actually figured this out after reading your post on the downward kick and looked for in in some of the NES games, which is when i noticed the change in animation. even the original super mario has it (although it's missing in mario 3). also, contra has the animation change, wich is an example of a combat oriented platformer. awesome thread by the way.
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Loren Schmidt
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« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2009, 02:23:19 AM »

I've been thinking about making a toy for playing with platformer feel in real time. The idea is that you can run around in a test environment, and there are some text fields for variables like gravity and friction, so you can edit the values while playing. Here's what I've got so far:

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agj
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« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2009, 02:25:09 PM »

Hah! That was the only thing left to do after this thread. Congratulations, that tool looks amazing.
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« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2009, 03:38:17 PM »


Donkey kong country for the SNES comes to mind. Which is both awesome and good in every way imaginable.
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« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2009, 05:36:22 PM »

I did a bit of early/late jump in johnny platform too, helped abit with timing jumps though maybe a frame or two more leeway would've been good, it was only a few I think.

The downward velocity when walking off a ledge is a very interesting idea. I'll have a play with that next time I'm platformer coding (so probably saturday ^_^).
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Super-Dot
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« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2009, 08:51:21 PM »

I've been thinking about making a toy for playing with platformer feel in real time. The idea is that you can run around in a test environment, and there are some text fields for variables like gravity and friction, so you can edit the values while playing.

:D Me too! Is that Flash? I've been using Game Maker.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2009, 09:12:14 PM by Super-Dot » Logged

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« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2009, 12:00:29 AM »

That's hilarious, Super-Dot. :D It looks like we're coincidentally making almost exactly the same thing at the same time. I just added the platforms today, but I don't have collision code working well yet.

Post more in 'What are you working on' (or here, for that matter). I'd love to see how it's coming along.
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Loren Schmidt
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« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2009, 07:29:04 PM »

So here's the aforementioned platformer toy.
Directions
  • Z to jump
  • arrows to move
  • type in text fields to change gravity, friction, etc.
  • click to place / remove platforms

Super-Dot also has his up, and it has some nice features that mine is lacking. I'd recommend taking a look.
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Loren Schmidt
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« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2009, 02:50:27 PM »

Don Andy and Hideous are working on a platformer in Flash, so I'm posting the source for this project here. Anyone who likes is free to use this. This comes with the disclaimer that I'm not a very proficient programmer, and there are likely much better ways of doing things. Embarrassed

project files
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Anthony Flack
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« Reply #30 on: January 19, 2009, 04:39:04 PM »

You can get away with making the boost time quite short in many cases (depending on how jumpy your character is). In my game just about any kind of press of the jump button produces a standard jump; you only get the small jump from a brief tap. So the curve is only distorted right at the start.
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« Reply #31 on: January 19, 2009, 05:00:42 PM »

I've been thinking about making a toy for playing with platformer feel in real time. The idea is that you can run around in a test environment, and there are some text fields for variables like gravity and friction, so you can edit the values while playing.

:D Me too! Is that Flash? I've been using Game Maker.

This is pretty funny, I was just reading the Game Feel: A Game Designer's Guide to Virtual Sensation, and the author had similar sample apps to demonstrate how various variables effect the "game feel".
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Loren Schmidt
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« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2009, 06:02:52 PM »

You can get away with making the boost time quite short in many cases (depending on how jumpy your character is). In my game just about any kind of press of the jump button produces a standard jump; you only get the small jump from a brief tap. So the curve is only distorted right at the start.
That's a good point. In the game I'm currently working on, originally there were a large range of possible jump heights. It was possible to make tiny little hops, or large leaps. I like being able to make tiny hops, and I kind of miss it. But based on what people have said, the old player movement wasn't very intuitive. Over time, the jump drifted toward what you've described. The minimum jump grew, and the period during which the jump can be be varied has shortened. So the height is still variable, but it's becoming less so.

I think a more variable jump works well in many kinds of games, but it may not have been a good idea for the sort of game I'm working on.
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Steve Swink
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« Reply #33 on: January 20, 2009, 07:52:49 AM »

Quote

This is pretty funny, I was just reading the Game Feel: A Game Designer's Guide to Virtual Sensation, and the author had similar sample apps to demonstrate how various variables effect the "game feel".

 Gentleman

I just put up the Super Mario demo. It's a relatively accurate clone with (thinly) redone art and sound. The first one lets you try to tune it yourself, while the second one has Mario tuning. If you fiddle around, you can get pretty close to SMW/Yoshi's Island tuning as well. 

http://www.game-feel.com/chapter-13-demo-super-scarfman-is-up/
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« Reply #34 on: January 20, 2009, 08:52:15 AM »

I'm of the opinion that low inertia is superior to high inertia. Inertia is usually just a method of reducing player control to increase difficulty.
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« Reply #35 on: January 20, 2009, 10:17:46 AM »

Gentleman

I just put up the Super Mario demo. It's a relatively accurate clone with (thinly) redone art and sound. The first one lets you try to tune it yourself, while the second one has Mario tuning. If you fiddle around, you can get pretty close to SMW/Yoshi's Island tuning as well. 

http://www.game-feel.com/chapter-13-demo-super-scarfman-is-up/

Haha, awesome, I thought you might be on this site from all the references in the book.  Great job on the book btw.  Hand Thumbs Up Left Beer!
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« Reply #36 on: January 20, 2009, 05:52:07 PM »

I'm of the opinion that low inertia is superior to high inertia. Inertia is usually just a method of reducing player control to increase difficulty.
Unless the player is a human wrecking ball in a game about breaking stuff.
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Anthony Flack
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« Reply #37 on: January 21, 2009, 02:35:09 AM »

Which suggests the counter-argument: high inertia is more fun.

Providing you still have enough control to feel in-control, swinging around the place in a freewheeling, seat-of-the-pants style is more exciting than moving with robotic precision. It also provides more interesting gameplay potential... I guess you could call it increased difficulty, but it's more that the width of platforms and the speed of your run-up become other factors that influence the game, and can be used creatively in the level design. Also, in a zero-inertia game a jump is a jump is a jump; slippery games have a much broader range of outcomes and so can provide players with a higher skill ceiling to shoot for (like the crazy stunts people have got Mario to do). It's exactly the same thing that makes Sega Rally so much fun, and deep for such a simple game.

Which isn't to say that precision control doesn't have its place too.
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« Reply #38 on: January 21, 2009, 03:35:40 AM »

Which suggests the counter-argument: high inertia is more fun.

Providing you still have enough control to feel in-control, swinging around the place in a freewheeling, seat-of-the-pants style is more exciting than moving with robotic precision. It also provides more interesting gameplay potential... I guess you could call it increased difficulty, but it's more that the width of platforms and the speed of your run-up become other factors that influence the game, and can be used creatively in the level design. Also, in a zero-inertia game a jump is a jump is a jump; slippery games have a much broader range of outcomes and so can provide players with a higher skill ceiling to shoot for (like the crazy stunts people have got Mario to do). It's exactly the same thing that makes Sega Rally so much fun, and deep for such a simple game.

Which isn't to say that precision control doesn't have its place too.
Right, but this only works in a game with absolutely zero instant kill traps. If you have pits, spikes, or anything even remotely dangerous to the protagonist, you can't have high inertia, or it will frustrate the player when they can't control where they're going and careen for the thousandth time into a pit of spikes.

A human wrecking ball game would be exciting, because presumably you would be the one doing the damage. It's pretty much always a bad idea for standard platformers, though. When you increase inertia, it becomes harder to aim where you're going, and the result is frustrating difficulty, not entertaining difficulty.
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salade
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« Reply #39 on: January 21, 2009, 01:05:56 PM »

I think inertia vs. precise control should be judged on a game to game basis.
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