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[s0]

actually it not being procgenned is kind of a deterrent for me. imo the whole point of these games is to have an infinite world you can return to whenever you feel like it.

[gimymblert]

I think it's fair to talk of smilar game here, there is no big news and NMS opened a hunger for that type of game.

here is a good summary for nms anyway

[gimymblert]

Let's keep documented




edit:
http://gamerant.com/no-mans-sky-starting-planet-max-everything/
No Man’s Sky Player Spends 25+ Hours on Starting Planet, Maxes Out Everything


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2qKAX_QaoI?

[FrankieSmileShow]

Jim Sterling made a video about it just now, about whether Hello Games truly were dishonest about the game. Other than some snark, it's pretty even-handed.





Watching this made me think about the ethics of dishonesty when presenting a game, I am a bit torn on the subject. I made a comment on the vid, pasting it here with some edits, I'd like to hear what you all think about this:

I understand how you might not want people to know exactly what they are in for when playing a game, so I empathize with how Hello Games wanted to stay vague when explaining the game, as long as the spirit of it as a whole is well represented enough, and people more or less know what they are in for.

This might seem odd, but I don't really mind him lying about whether you can meet with other players or not in the game either. This game is not about interacting with other players, its about exploring the universe on your own, while feeling like everyone is exploring the same space. Exploring feels like it matters more if everyone else is also part of that same world, yet you are likely to be the only one to ever set foot on this one planet. Its not about actually meeting them, its about thinking that it could happen. The illusion that others are also out there, running around their own planet surfaces, and that you could meet them is arguably as legitimate as any other sort of illusion and trickery games do for the sake of narrative.

Like for instance, in all RPG games ever, NPCs you talk to are not real people with real feelings, they are following a script. Games like Super Metroid and Zelda: A Link To The Past might look and feel non-linear but you actually still are mostly following a preset intended sequence. If its part of setting the tone, I think its pretty much fine.

But lies outside the game, about the game? That's where things get tricky. I don't know if I would do it myself. I made one game a few years ago that uses a lot of deception for the sake of a twist, deception that would probably make you think the game is a lot longer than it really is, that has features it doesn't really have. The game's download page contains doctored screenshots, the trailer contains doctored footage, all to trick the player about the nature of the game. We are talking MAJOR deception here, about some huge parts of the game, not a mere technical detail about a remote possibility like meeting with other players in No Man's Sky.

I am distributing the game for free, so this really frees me of a lot of the ethical questions this could raise. But would it be okay to sell that game at all? If I did want the sell the game, would I have to ruin the twist by being open about it in the store page? Would I just present the game innocently on the store page without spoiling nor reinforcing the deception? Or could I go full-liar and use the store page to make the deception stronger, hopefully to lead to an even bigger, better delivery on the twist? The latter option might be considered false advertising and unethical. The first option would ruin the twist and make the game objectively worse. The middle option would not explicitly break rules, but then what do I do if people ask me questions about the game, if I were interviewed? Would I just play dumb and be evasive? And would I be ethically obligated to correct people's misconceptions about the game if they were talking about it among themselves? Would staying silent there be unethical too?

[gimymblert]

[s0]

Lol subnautica is on sale right now. Looks like someone wants to cash in and you know what? I still have some steam credit left so im gonna get it.

[jamesprimate]

I've been hearing good things about subnautica. How is the non proc-genned environment? Apparently it used to be proc-genned?

ive been playing survival for about 10hr and havent moved much beyond the opening crash site (though my distance is slowing widening), so for me the world is crazy huge, challenging and terrifying. it still feels early access here and there, but it *really* gets the horror and beauty of the deep sea right.  i have a feeling that the proc-gen was dropped because oxygen management is such a main component of the game and hitting the resource sweet spot for starting players would be pretty hard to manage procedurally

[s0]

i have a feeling that the proc-gen was dropped because oxygen management is such a main component of the game and hitting the resource sweet spot for starting players would be pretty hard to manage procedurally

according to the devs, they opted for hand a designed world because it allowed them to make more beautiful environments. i think it's an understandable reason. not that you can't make procgen look good, but it requires a lot of work and often still looks spotty in places (like NMS for example).

anyway, it's currently DLing and i will post more once i actually play it.

[Superb Joe]

just saw this footage of subnautica, seems good

[gimymblert]

https://brkeogh.com/2016/08/21/notes-on-no-mans-sky/

[Capntastic]

"But through No Man’s Sky’s transience and refusal to let you ever dig your roots in, the mechanics and overtones that make most open-world games feel overtly colonialist are mostly nonexistent here. You don’t strip the world of resources; you take that tiny tiny fraction of the world’s resources you can fit in your inventory. You might try to just sabotage the world by killing every animal you see, but the omnipresent and aggressively peacekeeping robot cops will soon put an end to that. You never ‘complete’ a world, and you never make it your home. The No Man’s Sky player is more akin to a tourist than an explorer, if only because an explore tends to have some maps or other data to show for their exploration when they return home. The No Man’s Sky player never returns home."

That's kind of an interesting angle to view the game from, buuuuuut when there's so much busywork with constantly mining and crafting doodads and upgrades, refueling your suit, your laser, your gun, your ship's thrusters, pulse drive, warp drive, managing inventory slots, etc, it becomes less of a relaxed tour of IDYLLIC COUNTRYSIDE EUROPE and more of a constantly scrounging along the ground on your hands and knees for thrown away subway cards in a grimy Manhattan terminal hoping you can get to the next stop to repeat it again.  It's not relaxing.  If it's supposed to be a chill road trip it's one where your car's leaking every fluid it can and overheating and spewing stink smoke into the passenger compartment and your wallet fell out of your pocket and is beneath the brakes so you can't even pull over where you want to sort shit out.

[s0]

subnautica has a smoother progression than nms and looks prettier, but i reallllly don't like the building aspect of minecraft and similar games. ive been avoiding it so far but i wonder how "mandatory" it is.

[gimymblert]

It's not relaxing FOR YOU. It's relaxing as in it's a brainless predictable zoning out experience. Just enough to give you the fantasy of the 70s cover, ie not idyllic contryside, but strange landscape, potentially threatening but the hero never dies. I would as far as saying 50s space pulp.

Many people has pointed that the inventory management is a red herring too.

[Capntastic]

Oh, many people, okay.

[gimymblert]

[mks]

[s0]

anyway, nms is actually fairly linear and progression focused for its genre. or at least it tries really hard to give you "stuff to do" constantly. it even has quest lines and shit. even the galaxies are a linear progression to the center masquerading as an open map. i still find it relaxing but it doesn't feel more "open" than eg terraria.

[JWK5]

Best review yet:

[Capntastic]

Did this get linked yet:
http://www.geek.com/games/no-mans-sky-wipes-your-discoveries-after-two-weeks-1668222/

[s0]

cue someone claiming that this is somehow "deep" and the developers trying to make some kind of "point" lol