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[Gregg Williams]

Yeah I hear you about project scope. What platform is this for anyways, I can't seem to find any mention of it?

Also what language is things coded in, it seems like it would be well suited for console. Which might make something like local couch MP a cool option to.

[HughSJ]

agh good point-- i'll edit the opening post to include the fact that this game is our scratch built engine, written in C++, and will be playable on PC, Mac, & Linux.

No hope of getting onto consoles, but it's something we'd like to explore more if this project is successful.

[HughSJ]

'allo mates.

Here's a timelapse of the venerable Gauss doing environment assets for the game at 15x speed. Because all our assets are 3d models rendered down into sprites we're in a unique position where we can sort of break all the rules on traditional 3d modeling. So long as the render looks good, doesn't matter how we get it, so polycount doesn't matter and there's all kinds of hodge-podge modeling and kit-bashing. End result is a unique approach to say the least for creating game assets. Check it out!

[HughSJ]

btw,   big news -- tomorrow I'll be doing a devstream at twitch.tv/stellarjockeys on how to make maps for Matador, then I'll be posting both a playable build of the game as well as all the tools for making maps and modding the game !!

I'll be shooting for 2pm central time, and if you miss it the videos will be posted to the stream. Hope you guys can tune in!

[HughSJ]

Dev-stream is LIVE guys! pop on over! I'll be doing a run of the game then going into the editor and making a new map from scratch, then putting the end result into the game:



The program I'm using is a free editor called Tiled (without Thorbjørn Lindeijer we'd be in trouble)

And here's our current master set of assets for the game: mapmaster.zip

Aaaaaaand last but not least, a PLAYABLE BUILD! (info-1 info-2)

[pollux]

Played the demo for a good 30 minutes. It's pretty fun. Please tell me you have a test level somewhere where I can chaingun through like 20,000 of those little soldiers? That would be so satisfying.

[Gregg Williams]

Any chance for a Mac build? oh and maybe joystick support? I can't ever play shit on this thing http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/images/kb_adv-blk720x471.jpg

[HughSJ]

hahaha well... a very early version of game was for controllers, but we've since shifted over to WASD + mouse. If the game is still playable with a controller tho we'll be sure to add support back in.

And currently there's a lot of fiddly stuff that has to be done to make a mac build available-- so we'll get one up soon it's just one of those cases like cleaning your room; bunch of work you just want to keep putting off  

Once the game is in alpha tho we'll have buyable / playable builds for all 3 platforms.

The dev-stream is still going strong btw if people want to pop in and say hello

[Gregg Williams]

You should certainly make the controls customizable. For instance I'm a arrows person.. (Though arrows are split on that keyboard)

Seems like some dual stick controller would be ideal for the game.

[HughSJ]

controls will definitely be customizable. At worst we'll just ship with our current system which is just an editable .cfg file, but hopefully we'll be able to integrate key customization into the UI / menus on the game. Depends on how long other features take, and none of the programmers want to spend any more time than they have to on implementing interfaces.

[Gregg Williams]

controls will definitely be customizable. At worst we'll just ship with our current system which is just an editable .cfg file, but hopefully we'll be able to integrate key customization into the UI / menus on the game. Depends on how long other features take, and none of the programmers want to spend any more time than they have to on implementing interfaces.

Yeah GUI is hell, I hear ya.

[HughSJ]

fruits of today's devstream-- new pipes!

[HughSJ]

agh @pollux just saw your post, don't know how I missed it. Anyway, there isn't currently a level that has what you're saying, but you can set it up easily yourself-- all you need to do is modify the spawnlists. Just edit the text file:

"game/assets/levels/spawnlist_loyalists.json"

you'll see something like:

"min" :
            [
                ["assets/data/units/loyalists/loy_tank_04.json", 1],
                ["assets/data/units/loyalists/loy_tank_04.json", 1],
                ["assets/data/units/loyalists/loy_tank_04.json", 2],
                ["assets/data/units/loyalists/loy_tank_04.json", 2],
                ["assets/data/units/loyalists/loy_agrav_01.json", 1],
                ["assets/data/units/loyalists/loy_agrav_01.json", 1],
                ["assets/data/units/loyalists/loy_agrav_01.json", 2],
                ["assets/data/units/loyalists/loy_agrav_01.json", 2],
                ["assets/data/units/loyalists/loy_tank_03.json", 2],
                ["assets/data/units/loyalists/loy_tank_03.json", 2],
                ["assets/data/units/loyalists/loy_tank_03.json", 1],
                ["assets/data/units/loyalists/loy_tank_03.json", 1],
                ["assets/data/units/loyalists/loy_tank_02.json", 1],
                ["assets/data/units/loyalists/loy_foot_01.json", 10],
                ["assets/data/units/loyalists/loy_foot_01.json", 10],
                ["assets/data/units/loyalists/loy_foot_01.json", 10],
                ["assets/data/units/loyalists/loy_foot_02.json", 6],
                ["assets/data/units/loyalists/loy_foot_02.json", 6]
            ],

-------------

each entry is a spawn call, so just get rid of all of those except for the 'loy_foot_01' and 'loy_foot_02' calls, and add more to your heart's content. The number after the call is how many units spawn per call. I have no idea what the upper limit of spawnable units is, but you should be able to get a few hundred in at least.

Also, some commands you may find useful (use '~' to open console):
devmode 1 (enables 'q' to teleport as well as other stuff)
god 1 (invulnerability)
invisible 1 (derp)

Played the demo for a good 30 minutes. It's pretty fun. Please tell me you have a test level somewhere where I can chaingun through like 20,000 of those little soldiers? That would be so satisfying.

[pollux]

Haha, awesome. I'm going to give that a try.

[HughSJ]

great. The entire data structure is exposed in this build so you can change just about anything-- if you want to mess with mechs or weapons then use the data flow chart I posted earlier as reference. It's not 100% accurate anymore but should put you in the right place most of the time, and for the rest file pointers should be easy enough to follow. Try messing with the movement speeds or weapon damages and firing rates. You can also change what weapons and vehicles available to pick at the beginning of the game by editing the game/assets/data/rootdata.json file

[HughSJ]

New tank! This one has a double main mount so you can reeeeaally dish out some firepower:

[Gregg Williams]

So if my understanding is correct, the current design is shooting for a game that can effectively be beat in an hour or less. Yet hopes to encourage replay or demands multiple replays to successfully beat it, as this is how you unlock additional units, weapons, and so forth?

Essentially similar to Rogue Legacy as a recent game example of this ever increasing power/options loop from repeated plays.

My main concern if all the above is true, is if a static city layout is going to provide enough play variety to support this gameplay loop? Fixed level with fixed spawn locations, but random spawn type seems like a odd mixture. It's seemingly missing the more complete dynamic level generation aspect, but also removes the classic memorization and mastery loop thanks to randomized spawn types.

Are you planning new game+ type functionality where you start to see stronger or upgraded enemies, or other gameplay modes?

Anyways not sure what your pricing plans and such are, I just worry some that you may come across as lacking content and features, which might hurt sells or push down the price point, and I know its a title that has a ton of investment in it currently.

[gausswerks]

Thanks for taking this to TIGSource, Gregg.

It's a valid concern, and in fact a lot of what we've had a big design revision to approach, though we were coming at it from a different angle--a coder had a concern about play depth (kill everything and move on).

First, talk about what we mean by a game that gets beaten in about an hour. That's assuming a successful run, and that to get to that point hopefully players will have to put in ~3-5 hours to make it, or more. Needless to say, Yu is an inspiration on that point.

But still, it's not enough. To that end we are looking at widening the play space by giving more completion methods than  'kill em all'; you can also clear levels by taking out strategic objectives. I look at favorite games that allow for broader player styles, and by that I mean a very basic brute force <----> stealth continuum. Blood Money being a prime example. At it's core, you want the player to discover and enjoy different ways of playing, and then give some feedback/reward for doing so.

Our currently tabled proposal is to replicate that in a basic way with a ratings/unlock system. For play feedback, each map ends in a simple kill/stat screen which awards what we'll call "badges". The badges award for objectives, and style. These are both to let the player understand quickly the affordance in the game, and a way for them to keep track of their type of run... and to give an idea of what to expect.

Style badges are simple: run under par-->speed badge, no enemy spots--> stealth badge, etc. Objective badges are awarded depending on what you destroyed. Taking out the strategic objectives means that the next level you play. Both style/objective badge combinations can mean different unlocks for players that reinforce/reward on their given axis (as in Blood Money, it Feels Good to be rewarded for great stealthing by being given more stealth options), but these badge combinations also change enemy force composition and positioning.

So the easiest and hopefully most natural way to play and beat the game is "round robin," which is to say, keep changing objectives/play styles such that the AI stays off balance. Go after enemy forces one map or two, then go after strategic objectives next, so that they're trying to reinforce against a playstyle you've already dropped. A more difficult way to play the game is to go for a single-badge run, ie, an all stealth/infrastructure run. The playering doing a single-badge run can expect better unlocks for it, but has to contend with AI that "knows what's coming," ie shift more and more to meet the specific threat he or she is putting down.

The most difficult way of beating the game is scorched earth, or psycho runs. Which is to say that you purposefully do not take out one or two of the strategic objectives, but wipe everything out on the map. This should effectively engage "hard mode", where in addition to previously mentioned spawning/force composition changes, enemies get additional reinforcements. This, I think, is the option most oriented to New Game+, though we've also discussed having enemy types tagged to not show up until N number of playthroughs has occured.

Thanks for the question Gregg, we're hoping that chatting with you and others means we can vet some of our upcoming design changes before we go through the costly business of committing to them... our development being what it is, we likely won't get another crack at another big design change. There should be room for adding in more content after the game is released, free DLC style, but right now we're really just trying to get the game into a robust, interesting game that isn't too ambitious (too late on that score, right? ).

[Gregg Williams]

Hmm thats certainly an interesting approach. Basically expanding breadth of play space vs depth and overall amount of content. I'm not sure what to think of it exactly honestly. The game so far has been sold as an arcade style game, that corresponds to a destroy everything mentality, typically.

Although it also sounds like this might force players to play in various styles they aren't interested in playing, in order to unlock all the various upgrades/equipment options and such. (If I've understood this right)

Certainly a tough spot to be in at this stage of the development.

[gausswerks]

The game has never quite been arcade action, but the level of tactical necessity has waxed and waned. It's on the rise again, thankfully, and I think the game is better for it. We have facing armor bonuses/penalties that remained dormant for a long time, and now suddenly it's a lot more important. Circling around enemies, breaking line of sight; we've had most of the kinds of things that would allow for stealth-type play, but we've been looking at actually building out the rest of the game to accommodate.

As far as unlocks go, I still think the Blood Money example makes the most sense. The really great thing about that unlock system is that generally speaking, your unlocks reinforced how you were already playing. Occasionally big assault rifles and machineguns for silent assassin ranking a level, but most of the time playing stealth gave you more options for being better at stealth. Subsonic bullets, better silencers, etc. "Going loud" filled out the other options--heavier powder loads bullets, extended magazines.

So yes. In order to unlock all of the vehicles/weapons, you'll have to play differently, but within the established parameters of most action games. You do runs quickly, steathily, or thoroughly (or very thoroughly --> psycho run), and steadily widen your palette, so to speak.

I think this also has a benefit of a structure that could be used to good effect in terms for easing in new players, teaching them without babying/tutorializing them overtly. Hard to pull off, but the idea of a "newbie tank" that is one of the starter vehicles being built largely for easing new players into the game might also still prove an interesting spec for more advanced players... by way of creative limitations.

Isn't it ironic anyway, how most games reward you with more power just as you're getting much much better at playing the game? Perhaps you could tie the vehicles themselves to different enemy "mix rates".