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[Graham-]

Maybe less combat in Earthbound would be good. Though none might have wild consequences on your experience. Working for your story is essential to RPG. Combat can feel tiring, but so can school. We cannot play all day. We must find balance.

[oodavid]

To be succinct, I think you'd do very well to leave combat till last in your system. A lot of my favourite RPGs have been due to strong story, design, puzzle and exploration elements, get those right and I could imagine a lot of good games coming from your work.

2¢

[deWiTTERS]

To be succinct, I think you'd do very well to leave combat till last in your system. A lot of my favourite RPGs have been due to strong story, design, puzzle and exploration elements, get those right and I could imagine a lot of good games coming from your work.

2¢

I completely agree, combat is currently last on my priority list. I'm now focusing on the adventure/story part, which even seems to be more important than making (number) progression.

I sure hope to create the toolset that allows anyone to create amazing games.

[Graham-]

blergh. all elements of a game are important. do what pleases you, but ignoring challenge will have a cost.

[Muz]

Yeah, some kind of grind helps. Skip the grind and it's over in just a few minutes. Replace combat grind with dialogue and you get a visual novel. Replace combat grind with puzzles and you get an adventure game. Some kind of stat based PvP helps, even if it's not combat.

[oodavid]

Yeah, some kind of grind helps. Skip the grind and it's over in just a few minutes. Replace combat grind with dialogue and you get a visual novel. Replace combat grind with puzzles and you get an adventure game. Some kind of stat based PvP helps, even if it's not combat.

Sounds like game alchemy. Remove the world-view and you get a beat-em-up. Change the camera and you get an FPS...

[DangerMomentum]

I can't really think of many RPGs I've played that I would have still enjoyed if they didn't have combat. Some people play them for the challenge and strategy aspects of combat and less for the story. You'll always be able to find people that prefer one part over another, but part of what makes oldschool RPGs work is the synergy between an engaging story and challenges to overcome (combat).

[SundownKid]

Remove the combat from an RPG and you get a visual novel or adventure game. So I don't think it can really be a true RPG without combat of some sort.

[s0]

Remove the combat from an RPG and you get a visual novel or adventure game. So I don't think it can really be a true RPG without combat of some sort.

nah, "rpg mechanics" in videogames basically means some form of character stat management. you can have that without combat.

[SundownKid]

Remove the combat from an RPG and you get a visual novel or adventure game. So I don't think it can really be a true RPG without combat of some sort.

nah, "rpg mechanics" in videogames basically means some form of character stat management. you can have that without combat.

Usually they call a game with RPG mechanics but no combat a "stat raiser" or "sim" rather than an RPG.

[Muz]

The Sims Medieval follows a lot of fantasy games and involves some stat juggling, conquest, and decision making. I haven't heard a lot of people call it a RPG.

The Sims 3 World Adventures literally has dungeon crawling, including looting ruins, disarming traps with a skill, searching for secret passages, getting rich on selling relics. But minimal combat. It's also not really classified as a RPG.

[s0]

i know what these games are "usually classified" as but im trying to broaden the discussion a bit. in my earlier post i was pointing to a game (the sims) that has all the mechanics associated with rpgs except combat and is very popular, meaning that "rpgs without combat" can, in fact, be fun.

whether most people would call it an "rpg" is irrelevant to my point, changing the label doesn't change the mechanics.

[Graham-]

well the Sims feels kind of like a hybrid, between simulation and RPG. I think classifying it as an RPG is reasonable, but there is a strong distinction between it and "true RPGs" in our books.

I know girls that have played the Sims. They kind of "play a role" but they also imagine their own lives. There is a difference between playing a character and playing house. Simulations are more about finding a medium to discuss your own life (or reality) through. Playing a role is more about engaging in the fantasy.

For stat juggling to be meaningful there needs to be a significance to it i.e. some pass/fail state. In which case you need some test of your stat-juggling abilities, otherwise you pass into a different genre.

IOW making the Sims more like an rpg would mean more conflict, and thus some combat equivalent. You don't need combat per se but you need some contest.

[oodavid]

Lets get semantic, all games are Role-Playing-Games. Glad we cleared that up.

It would appear that you're at a crossroads as to what to develop next, in your shoes, do whatever feels best, if you're drawn to storytelling, do that. I think putting combat low on the list isn't a bad idea at all as long as you acknowledge it's place in your RPG editor. I might put a simple placeholder together to help keep it in scope, click an enemy? You always win, something like that.

[deWiTTERS]

As you know my final decision was to drop combat for now and focus on the story elements... but that was until I recently saw Hyper Light Drifter . It's an action based combat, and looks like a whole lot of fun... . Can't resist implementing it.

[s0]

Lets get semantic, all games are Role-Playing-Games. Glad we cleared that up.

what's the "role" you play in tetris?

I know girls that have played the Sims. They kind of "play a role" but they also imagine their own lives.

no problem there, there are plenty of rpgs where you don't really "play a role" at all. final fantasy for instance.

[oodavid]

Lets get semantic, all games are Role-Playing-Games. Glad we cleared that up.

what's the "role" you play in tetris?

Touché!

[Posthuman Wizard]

There are plenty of non-combat focused games that fit the mold of what I'd consider a role-playing game (in other words, a game where the central mechanic is a narrative that adapts to the player's actions). If anything, more role-playing games would benefit from excluding a combat system to focus purely on how choice and consequence can be applied to other scenarios. I'd love to play an RPG where you take control of a politician clawing your way to office, and then deal with the impact of the statements you've made.

[Muz]

Lets get semantic, all games are Role-Playing-Games. Glad we cleared that up.

But the question is, can you sell those games as RPG? Sure you play a role in something like Civilization, but if someone buys it, thinking that it's a "RPG", they'd flip shit and demand their money back.

RPG, as a genre, is about stat juggling. It's evolved from actual tabletop role playing to taking out the stat juggling complex formulas and manipulating rules in a way that only computers can handle. Half of playing a RPG is in character creation and character builds.

That's why The Sims doesn't count as a "RPG" - not enough of it is in character builds. You have the leveling up and stuff but your choices in character design and path doesn't make enough difference. And you can't mix together those characters into a "party" to win.

I'd put MOBAs into the RPG category, because they refined character and party builds into gameplay, while skipping most of the grind.

[oodavid]

Aha I see! I've never been very good at classifications etc. I still get confused by RnB cause it's not Rhythm and Blues, but rather just "arrnbee".

In the context of an RPG engine, I'd find the areas that overlap with multiple genres and focus on those first, at least that way you have the opportunity to change direction half way through