|
Jeff
|
 |
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2008, 11:03:43 PM » |
|
2D Boy did virtually no personal marketing for World of Goo and I just saw Ron Carmel on TV an hour ago.  If your game is truly awesome, you should be thinking more about business development (e.g. getting your game featured on the Wii) rather than thinking about which blog editors you need to email. For 99% of indie games, this is obviously not the case, but 2D Boy definitely made it. For the rest of us, trying to get covered on TIGSource, etc. is a great start.  |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: December 14, 2008, 11:07:08 PM by Jeff »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
|
|
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2008, 06:59:19 AM » |
|
You don't think going on TV counts as marketing, though? Or getting your game featured on the Wii? Both are part of marketing. It includes a wide range of activities; most successful indie developers (the ones that make a living at it, like Cliffski, etc.) spend about as much time marketing as they do creating games.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Jeff
|
|
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2008, 11:44:59 AM » |
|
Right, but my point is that Ron Carmel and Kyle Gabler didn't email Spike TV, MSNBC, and the hundreds of other sites and ask to be covered. They did a few things that put them in that position, which I guess you could call marketing, but the things they did to get into that position was largely "make a kick ass game and win IGF".
After they won IGF, they mostly just had to sit back and the offers started rolling in. At that point the challenge was figuring out which companies are shady and to negotiate fair deals, not compile a list of blogs to notify. They ended up with a deal with Nintendo, Steam, and an amazing publisher. That is smart business development. If you classify that as "marketing", then it's just semantics.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Zaratustra
|
|
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2008, 07:21:07 AM » |
|
Right, but my point is that Ron Carmel and Kyle Gabler didn't email Spike TV, MSNBC, and the hundreds of other sites and ask to be covered. They did a few things that put them in that position, which I guess you could call marketing, but the things they did to get into that position was largely "make a kick ass game and win IGF".
IGF is a big marketing truck for people to put their indie games in. Some game-submit pages from websites that are too lazy to even post email addresses you can post press releases to: http://jayisgames.com/game-submit/hxxp://www.indiegamemag.com/2008/10/contact-us.htmlhttp://playthisthing.com/node/add/suggestionhttp://www.gametunnel.com/html/modules.php?name=Feedback (doesn't review free games and you have to get them like five copies of the game. I suspect this website is a ploy to play games for free.)http://www.indiegamemag.com/2008/10/contact-us.html |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: January 18, 2009, 06:16:52 AM by Zaratustra »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
|
|
« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2008, 05:51:47 AM » |
|
Right, but my point is that Ron Carmel and Kyle Gabler didn't email Spike TV, MSNBC, and the hundreds of other sites and ask to be covered. They did a few things that put them in that position, which I guess you could call marketing, but the things they did to get into that position was largely "make a kick ass game and win IGF".
After they won IGF, they mostly just had to sit back and the offers started rolling in. At that point the challenge was figuring out which companies are shady and to negotiate fair deals, not compile a list of blogs to notify. They ended up with a deal with Nintendo, Steam, and an amazing publisher. That is smart business development. If you classify that as "marketing", then it's just semantics.
They didn't, but I'm sure they did a lot of marketing work to get their game previewed and so on: it's sometimes like rolling a boulder down a hill: once you're known it's easier to become more known, but you have to provide the first momentum. And accepting those interviews and coverage, provided it takes some amount of work (as TV interviews do) is marketing work. And as Zaratustra said, entering the IGF and going there to accept the prize and all that is itself marketing, it takes time and effort and it promotes one's game to a larger audience. As a side note, have you read how multiwinia is having trouble getting reviewed, even though it gets very good scores when it does and has a higher conversion rate (and thus higher quality, concievably) than any of their other games? You can read about that here: http://forums.introversion.co.uk/introversion/viewtopic.php?t=1775 -- I think that's a pretty stark example of how you can't just make a good game and expect the rest to take care of itself. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
|
|
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2008, 05:54:57 AM » |
|
It's not a ploy (I know several of the reviewers), and they do review good free games occasionally (such as their infamous review of Cave Story). Game Tunnel has been reviewing indie games longer than just about anyone -- they go back long before tim w's blog and tigsource -- so they're definitely legit. Even Derek Yu guest-reviewed for them once, if that'll help convince you they're a real indie game review website. They may not have the same sensibilities that many of us do (e.g. I dislike their reliance on numbered rankings, it feels like EGM or famitsu, which is a bit adolescent), but they're real. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
TheBlackMask
|
|
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2008, 12:30:21 PM » |
|
Yeah, GameTunnel is not a scam. The guy that runs it has worked for Reflexive Games for a while. As a side note, have you read how multiwinia is having trouble getting reviewed, even though it gets very good scores when it does and has a higher conversion rate (and thus higher quality, concievably) than any of their other games? Good example, but do you think that the sequel factor might have something to do with this? I mean, Multiwinia looks pretty much like Darwinia. It doesnt seem impossible that reviewers would look at it, then brush it off as a sequel not worth the coverage. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
ShawnF
|
|
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2009, 04:57:48 AM » |
|
It's specialized and not updated a lot, but every bit of press helps, so here's one more: http://www.fun-motion.com/ |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
TheBlackMask
|
|
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2009, 01:46:32 PM » |
|
That's hilarious. Apparently playing a game for 3 minutes qualifies you to write a review of it now. Goodbye credibility.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
|
|
« Reply #30 on: January 18, 2009, 03:12:53 PM » |
|
IndieGameMag's review of my game wasn't that great either. It got the front cover so my mother just had to buy a copy (I didn't buy one myself because it was 9$ for a 24 page magazine).
You'd think that if someone were going to put in the effort to make an actual physical magazine about indie games, that they'd put more effort into their reviews. Writing isn't an easy talent, I guess.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Oddbob
Guest
|
|
« Reply #31 on: January 24, 2009, 02:26:46 PM » |
|
True, but then, most people who really can't write a coherent sentence don't get championed as some sort of promotional saviour in certain quarters  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
|
|
« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2009, 07:53:01 PM » |
|
Oh, I don't think his reviews are that bad. They are coherent sentences. They're grammatical. They just don't seem to have much work put into them: they aren't interesting to read, they read almost like GamePro's reviews (and I know that's terribly insulting, but I can't think of a widely recognizable comparison that isn't insulting).
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Oddbob
Guest
|
|
« Reply #33 on: January 24, 2009, 08:56:41 PM » |
|
This unique story embodies what indie games are about and solidifies itself with solid gameplay. Are you sure? :D |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
|
|
« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2009, 07:51:13 AM » |
|
Well, everyone makes a mistake here and there. It's leagues better than what you get on the GMC forums, at least.
But that sentence is particularly bad, yes. My mother started reading that review aloud to my father and I was like ugh ugh I don't want to hear it and had to leave the area.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oddbob
Guest
|
|
« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2009, 06:16:13 PM » |
|
Maybe he didn't want to give away the ending?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Peevish
|
|
« Reply #37 on: February 02, 2009, 02:28:10 PM » |
|
Making a kick-ass game is step 1 to getting known, but the internet is a very LOUD place, and it's hard for people to find you. World of Goo is a good example of something getting known simply for being innovative. Winning IGF is tons of low-cost/low-effort publicity, and a check for 20 grand makes marketing easier. But very few people are going to win IGF. Far less publicity goes to the runners-up. The Wolfire team had a decent blog entry about how to keep interest in a game through development so you already have some interest by release time: http://blog.wolfire.com/2008/12/6-tips-for-game-devs-from-the-gaming-sdforum/You don't have to be terribly business savvy; sometimes it can even be a turn-off. You just have to bring as much creativity to your publicity as you do to your game. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
tylerjhutchison
|
|
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2009, 08:11:28 PM » |
|
This unique story embodies what indie games are about and solidifies itself with solid gameplay. Are you sure? :D I didn't know that Dan Brown was writing game reviews now.  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Developer
