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[littlefox]

Hey guys. I'm writing an article for the Phoenix (thephoenix.com) about indie gaming. I'm going to talk about a few games in detail. I already have games in mind, but they aren't set in stone if you have recommendations.

The gamers who read the Rec Room section of the Phoenix probably won't be familiar with the indie scene, and I'm trying to clue them in with this article. So, I want to talk about indie gamers themselves - you guys, your culture, what made you interested in indie gaming.

Please also let me know if I can quote you in the article. It's been hard to find contacts, so I'm hoping a forum post will produce more results.

You can post here, or e-mail me at [email protected].

Thanks so much!

-- Maddy Myers

[fish]

DIY

DIFY.

[fish]

the f is for for.
not fuck.

[handCraftedRadio]

http://www.tigsource.com/features/spirit.html

Hopefully this will help. The second part has 50 recommended indie games for beginning indie players.

[littlefox]

I'm doing my best, young fish, but in order to write effectively, one must talk to people. I can't just play indie games, though I've done plenty of that in the past couple weeks; I'd like to actually hear from people, too. I've done all I can do on my own already.

If you don't want to help me, it's cool.

(Thanks Handcrafted. I found that this link helped most:
http://indygamer.blogspot.com/2007/08/top-20-best-of-lists.html
Been combing my way through best-of lists for a while now.)

[handCraftedRadio]

You should read the rest of it too. I think its what you are looking for.

[littlefox]

Yeah, indygamer is pretty excellent. But I heard good things about you guys, too.

I get the idea that you'd rather talk about the games than about yourselves, though. And, fair enough.

[Nate Kling]

Hand crafted radio meant to read "the way i see it" by Derek Yu.  That sums up a lot about the spirit of the Indie gaming community.  I'm sure more people would be willing to talk about more stuff in time as more people see this post. If you check in the business section there are some things more about the life of Indie gamers though I'm sure it varies a lot from each person. Good luck with the article!

[fish]

uhm...sorry about that.
maybe that was a bit too cryptic.

what i meant by that is that i find that a lot of indie game makers make the games they make because they want to. they make the games they want to play, wish existed. they do it for fun, they do it for themselves. not for money, clients, etc etc.

or atleast thats how i see it.
i find indie game dev to be a very selfish endeavour.
even if communities such as this one have florished around this little hobby of hours, and even if we often help eachother achieve our goals, trading art, tech and feedback, i think that ultimatly, we do it for ourselves.

DIY.
DIFY.

[littlefox]

Thanks for the clarifications, fish and nizzate; looks like I fail at reading comprehension today.

Also fish: Many people create art in a selfish sense, and I personally think that the best art is created for oneself and not to please other people. So ... art being selfish isn't necessarily bad. IMO.
From reading blogs and forums, I get the impression that indie games are perhaps a "higher" art form than corporate games usually are, or at least considered so by indie gamers. The question of whether games are art at all has resurfaced a lot recently (for example, in the Ebert debate).

I think it's important to write the article because ... I would like it if games were considered to be an important and special art genre, like music and films. Music and films both have their "indie" scene and it's neat to see similar patterns in the gaming world. A lot of gamers don't really think about this at all, or even know about indie games because they're too busy playing corporate stuff. But you guys know all that.

[fish]

the question of games as art is a tired one.
i would strongly suggest streering your article away from it as its been asked and answered way too many times already and usualy goes absolutely nowhere.

i used to care a lot about this question but ive since moved away from it.
now im just doing my own thing, for me. and i think thats how it should be.
art is in the intention and my intention is to make a game that says something about me and how i feel about X or Y.

the power to express oneself through the game is, i think, the edge indie games have over the rest.

but beign indie does not make a game artful.
and being artful does not make a game good.

there's a lot of absolutely shite indie games, just like there are a lot of shite comercial games. and the opposite is also true.

[littlefox]

the question of games as art is a tired one.
i would strongly suggest streering your article away from it as its been asked and answered way too many times already and usualy goes absolutely nowhere.

...

there's a lot of absolutely shite indie games, just like there are a lot of shite comercial games. and the opposite is also true.

Oh, I know there's a lot of shit to sift through. But the same can be said for the indie music and film scenes. And the same can be said for all things, ever.

As for the "are games art" question ... it's old news around here. But it's not that old a question to people who don't follow such things. The Phoenix talks about the "indie scene" with the arts a lot, but never has it talked about indie games before. We review games, but only the big corporate ones. To my paper, this question is new, and so is the entire topic.

[fish]

ok then, the answer is: yes.

but a lot of it is very bad art.

[Alec]

except for all of them.

which are good art.

[fish]

art schmart fart.

here's a more interesting question: are games design?

[Derek]

Alec: best damn avatar ever! :D

Anyway, like any artform, games work best when they're not made to be "art" but rather to be good games.  I think in the indie community there's more of an effort to make games that are expressive of the creator's personality and experiences - or at least, it's easier to perceive that as a player or observer due to the personal nature of independent development.

But yeah, I'm dubious about what this article you're writing is going to be like if you're hitting people up for answers on a webforum.

[AdamAtomic]

DIY

DIFY.

What about DIYFS?

[fish]

DIY

DIFY.

What about DIYFS?

i swear like a breathe, so, yes, that too, fuck.

[Guert]

Perhaps a good idea would be to search the indie game a bit and spot creators who have credentials and ask them personaly.

Sure, finding IGF winners is easy, but I'm thinking creators that are less "popular" but very important part of the community. They are creators that can live off making games while not necessarily having been presented under a "big spotlight".

I'm thinking of Niffals, Joseph White from Lexaloffle or the guys at Radical Poesis Games & Creations... I'm pretty sure these guys have very interesting views of the culture...

[fish]

i thought nifflas was a superstar.

when people hype your game on NEOgaf, you're famous,