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[nnyei]

Can't afford After Effects either, we use Blender for all of our editing needs, it can be clunky, but for the price of free it gets the job done pretty nicely. I've done masking effects in there too. Though, I've thought about incorporating Natron inside of the workflow, we'll see.

I personally love working with AE, but yeah, its cost is certainly not negligible. And if you can create the trailer in-house, that's certainly better for your budget as well.

I've never heard of Natron before so I have no idea how it compares. But if it can do the job, more power to it.

(Edited to add the quote for better readability because I hadn't realized my comment paged the thread.)

[io3 creations]

Maybe I'm overthinking this, but I enjoy our discussion!

In some sense, I think you are overthinking it. If you are about to meet a Mr. Green, would you think that person is green?  Or when you hear New York, do you think of it as just "new" York?   Interestingly, that's what happened to me sometimes when I was learning a few new languages, so that can certainly happen.  However, eventually, the association to the intended meaning will replace the other ones.  Also, I used to live in Danube+new+city and I never considered those separately (probably because I grew up there), until much later when I started learning more languages and analyzed it from that aspect.  

However, as I thought more about it, I can also agree that if I hear a word that uses two actual words combined together then those words' meaning could be apparent - even for a while.

Ratwind City is just an example, but keeping in mind the theme of divine powers and nature: Leafhand, Windleaf, Snakeshoe, Eastbush.

If you prefer a somewhat similar combination approach that doesn't use such obvious associations, you could use two words that you want and remove one or more letters from one of them.  Continuing with Rat+wind:
Rat + ind = Ratind
Ra + wind = Rawind

This way, at least one of the word is somewhat present and may subconsciously influence the meaning but certainly not as obvious.

Or you could add something in between:
Rat+o+wind = Ratowind
Rat+a+wind = Ratawind
Rat+on+wind = Ratonwind
Rat+an+wind = Ratanwind

And with hyphen:  Rat-o-wind, Rat-a-wind

There are many other ideas that could take features present in languages (e.g. -ville) or certain common syllables (e.g. Rat+ion = Ration, Rat+tion = Rattion) that might also work.


Overall, I like that it's still fairly "simple" to create new words with these approaches that and also some intended meaning embedded.  Hopefully, something might give you an idea that you can use but if not, then I can certainly imagine using a variation of these to come up with certain locations, weapons, vehicles for some of my future games.  

As for current city names, a few seem use actual words (some even named after people) but most seem to be based on "random" variation of characters.

[Greipur]

Luckily I just moved to Stockholm in April! :D

Cool, I hope you're enjoying it. If you ever happen to visit Gotland in the near future you should contact me and we can take a Swedish Fika™. 

I've never heard of Natron before so I have no idea how it compares. But if it can do the job, more power to it.

If I start using it I'll try and summarise my thoughts here, I'm always eager to try and promote open source stuff.

Overall, I like that it's still fairly "simple" to create new words with these approaches that and also some intended meaning embedded.  Hopefully, something might give you an idea that you can use but if not, then I can certainly imagine using a variation of these to come up with certain locations, weapons, vehicles for some of my future games.    

This is great stuff, io3 creations! Thank you for taking the time riffing on ideas. Though, this must be easy to translate into our planned languages: Russian, German and Spanish (maybe more in the future). Either we take the cheap route to not translate them (and use a variant of your proposals) or, we need a naming convention that is easy to translate. I think separate words works best.

I found this fascinating wiki article where it delves into some origins of places:

The names of natural or man-made features in the landscape tend to be older than those of settlements since the former are often more widely known. Names are given to water features, hills and valleys, islands and marshes, as well as woods and districts. Man-made landscape features that have been given names include roads and trackways as well as burial mounds, etc. Many topographic elements become incorporated into settlement names, together with plant, creature names or personal names. Many topographical words convey not just an image of the place but also a wealth of information about the likely size, status and pattern of farming practised by the community living there.

Water was of major importance to the early settlers of an area, both for subsistence and for religious reasons. Names were given to springs, streams, rivers and lakes as well as marshes, bays and seas.

Since each tile in Crest "knows" what it is we could have names "embedded" into the tiles and where the city is founded take properties from them. For example a city in the desert can take names from a list of desert characteristics.

Examples:

City of Thorns
Dry River
Elephant Hill
Cadaver Sands

[JobLeonard]

Cool, I hope you're enjoying it. If you ever happen to visit Gotland in the near future you should contact me and we can take a Swedish Fika™. 

Definitely on my to-do list now! :D

Just gave Natron a spin, it's pretty neat! As usual with these kind of tools, it requires that you re-encode any output, as far as I can tell.

So if you just want to cut movies together without really changing them, scrobbing through the movie with VLC, then cutting the pieces together using FFMpeg in the commandline is faster, with less degradation, since it doesn't re-encode anything. Even with the hassle of typing shit in the commandline!

I wish there was a simple timeline GUI for FFMpg which just let me take videostreams with identical encodings (say, the movies taken with my smartphone) and cut/concatenate pieces without re-encoding. Wait, I've never actually looked for that specific feature, let's see if there is anything for it..

https://sourceforge.net/projects/ffmpegyag/

Hmm, might be worth checking this out.

[io3 creations]

This is great stuff, io3 creations! Thank you for taking the time riffing on ideas. Though, this must be easy to translate into our planned languages: Russian, German and Spanish (maybe more in the future). Either we take the cheap route to not translate them (and use a variant of your proposals) or, we need a naming convention that is easy to translate. I think separate words works best.

I'm glad you liked it!

Since each tile in Crest "knows" what it is we could have names "embedded" into the tiles and where the city is founded take properties from them. For example a city in the desert can take names from a list of desert characteristics.

Examples:

City of Thorns
Dry River
Elephant Hill
Cadaver Sands

I like the example names that you listed.  Those seem to fit well the theme of the your game.  Cadaver Sands definitely sounds like a place to avoid!


Other options I thought about since my last post might have been to see if there are some patterns in the Lord of the Rings books for locations and character names and the Harry Potter series' use of magic words (perhaps based on Latin or something similar).  Those probably still wouldn't exactly fit the theme of your game but might be useful in other situations.

I found this fascinating wiki article where it delves into some origins of places:

That's an interesting wiki article.  Gave me a few more ideas for potential naming rules.   Looks like my assumption was that many cities are just named "randomly" may not be correct.  Though, as mentioned that you linked, naming often depends on when people first arrived and also on possible later settlers/invaders and may not be that simply to figure out the original meaning.

Speaking of naming places, there's an interesting approach of finding places - called Songlines.  Songline  Though, that one is used more for finding the places, it still bases certain parts of the songs on geographical features.  Maybe, some element of your game could incorporate that as people are traveling between locations.   Or maybe not.    

It's interesting how many different ideas/solutions can we/people come up with. 

[Greipur]

Cool, I hope you're enjoying it. If you ever happen to visit Gotland in the near future you should contact me and we can take a Swedish Fika™.  

Definitely on my to-do list now! :D

Just gave Natron a spin, it's pretty neat! As usual with these kind of tools, it requires that you re-encode any output, as far as I can tell.

Nice.

I've to dig into Natron soon, but currently I'm building up the bones for the trailer, so to speak. My old workflow with Blender is basically to capture gameplay in Fraps, put it into Blender, render out a huge file and then transcode with MediaCoder. So I'm used of not having my video software being able to make an internet-friendly file. Though if I use Blender and Natron that might complicate things.

Since each tile in Crest "knows" what it is we could have names "embedded" into the tiles and where the city is founded take properties from them. For example a city in the desert can take names from a list of desert characteristics.

Examples:

City of Thorns
Dry River
Elephant Hill
Cadaver Sands

I like the example names that you listed.  Those seem to fit well the theme of the your game.  Cadaver Sands definitely sounds like a place to avoid!

Thanks! Cadaver Sands is my take on Shady Sands from Fallout.

Speaking of naming places, there's an interesting approach of finding places - called Songlines.  Songline  Though, that one is used more for finding the places, it still bases certain parts of the songs on geographical features.  Maybe, some element of your game could incorporate that as people are traveling between locations.   Or maybe not.

Thanks for the tip!




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Jesper is currently making it possible so you can edit commandments, or rather, add a second condition. These two conditions will together make a new one more specified. Though, editing commandments spends faith.

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Christoffer is currently working on the production feedback for Crest, something that looks like a smithy.

I can hopefully post a fancy version with particle effects etc. before the end of the week.



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I'm continuing work on the trailer, since it will be made around the spoken word concept I've begun with writing the text. I want to post the first draft here, please let me know what you think, although I pride my ear for music and skills with writing I'm a complete beginner when it comes to spoken word. So give me feedback!

You're god.

Write commandments to sway the crowd.

It's not odd. It's a form of decree at a certain degree.

Rules to follow, those that make them fearful or proud.

Interpretations turns your rules into something new.

A religion born from the few, something that outgrew.

Don't lose faith. Something else can be better than what's tried and true.

Fulfill the itch of being a deity, see the people swear you fealty.

Because god you are.

[tortoiseandcrow]

Since you're not using a meter, I think setting up a more consistent rhyming scheme might help the flow. At the moment your rhyming scheme is all over the place. Perhaps something like this (as an example):

You are god.

Write commandments to sway the crowd. (A)

Rules to follow, to make them fearful or proud. (A)

It's not odd. It's a form of decree (B) at a certain degree. (B)

Interpretations turns your rules into something new. (C)

Don't lose faith. Something else can be better than what's tried and true. (C)

Fulfill your desire to be a deity (D), see the people swear you fealty. (D)

Because god you are.

[io3 creations]

I know there are different types of poems and other "rhyming structures" but for me it tends to make it more obvious if the lines end with

the rhyme.  Plus, a new line can indicate a little extra pause sometimes but that may depend how each person actually reads it.

e.g.

You're god.
It's not odd.
It's a form of decree
at a certain degree.

Write commandments
to sway the crowd.
Rules to follow,
make them fearful
or proud.

Interpretations turns
your rules into something new.
A religion born from the few,
something that outgrew.
Don't lose faith.
Something else can be better
than what's tried and true.

Fulfill the itch of being a deity,
see the people swear you fealty.

Because god
you are.

[Greipur]

Thank you both for chipping in, tortoiseandcrow and io3 creations! I thought about your feedback and talked with the team about it and came up with a second draft:

You are god.  

Indeed, write commandments to sway the crowd.

Rules to follow, to make them fearful or proud.

See, initially it is a form of decree.

Interpretation turns your rules into something you'd never foresee.

A religion born from the few, something that redefines you as deity.

Fulfill your ambition as a caretaker, see the people swear you fealty.

Something else can be better than your old repertoir.

Don't lose faith. Because god you are.

We have come in contact with a talented spoken word artist from the UK, so I'm a little nervous to present something decent that she can use as a starting point. But I'm really glad that she accepted, this trailer will be interesting I think.



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Also, Christoffer is finished with the production levels!

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In other news we're applying to Indie Megabooth, just sent in all of the required materials today. We'll see if we get accepted, and if so you can expect to see Crest at PAX in September!

[Greipur]

The player can soon add a second condition for a commandment, we just need to polish the interface. Christoffer did an animated mockup with the final assets, what do you think? Is it clear?

As a sidenote Christoffer did this in Photoshop with the timeline feature and lots of tweens, pretty nifty for a quick and dirty mockup!






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I'm currently doing tests for the trailer, I've decided to use gameplay footage and abstract scenes to follow along the spoken word subtitles. Since I want the text to stand out better I'm going for a simple palette for the scenes. To save time I'm using a freezed time style, as in having people in a fixed pose and just panning the camera. Examples of this style would be the intro for Black Sails or the The Witcher 2 opening cinematic.


















Right now I'm focusing on setting up a good template which I can use for all the four scenes I need. Here's three different versions, which one do you like the most? I already have my favourite, but I won't spoil it until I've heard some other opinions.

[JobLeonard]

Will there  be AND/OR/XOR logic?

[TheWanderingBen]

Great idea for the freeze-time trailer -- those videos really capture a classically "epic" feel, perfect for a god game. I'm personally loving the black-on-red look -- it feels like a real material.

In terms of the UX mock-up, I'm just confused why the Add button is an arrow pointing to the left on the left side, and the Don't Add button is an arrow on the right pointing to the right side. Usually right arrows on the right side mean "Next" or "Accept" or "Forward", whereas left arrows on the left side mean "Cancel" or "Back" (just take a look at your browser buttons!). Otherwise, I'm loving the mouse-over and slide animations; they're both very clear!

I hope that makes sense!

[io3 creations]

Depending on what you want to convey in the trailer, using a few different colors might actually work better then just a single one.  For example, you can highlight a certain event with the golden theme, dark events could use the black ones, etc.  Also, it can give a little variety so that view doesn't just see the "same" theme entirely.

I also agree with TheWanderingBen about the location of the Add/Don't add buttons.

[Greipur]

Will there  be AND/OR/XOR logic?

Only AND. The second condition is meant to narrow down the demographic of the commandment.

Great idea for the freeze-time trailer -- those videos really capture a classically "epic" feel, perfect for a god game. I'm personally loving the black-on-red look -- it feels like a real material.

In terms of the UX mock-up, I'm just confused why the Add button is an arrow pointing to the left on the left side, and the Don't Add button is an arrow on the right pointing to the right side. Usually right arrows on the right side mean "Next" or "Accept" or "Forward", whereas left arrows on the left side mean "Cancel" or "Back" (just take a look at your browser buttons!). Otherwise, I'm loving the mouse-over and slide animations; they're both very clear!

I hope that makes sense!

Black on red is my favourite as well.

Thanks Ben! Christoffer is currently changing that according to your feedback.

Depending on what you want to convey in the trailer, using a few different colors might actually work better then just a single one.  For example, you can highlight a certain event with the golden theme, dark events could use the black ones, etc.  Also, it can give a little variety so that view doesn't just see the "same" theme entirely.

I also agree with TheWanderingBen about the location of the Add/Don't add buttons.

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, I haven't decided yet if I will use several, what I initially wanted was to have a monochrome or rather, two colour composition (black and red for example). This saves time and I can polish that setup for all the scenes and make a cohesive whole. I will have to think about it some more, thanks for giving the input.





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Seems the feedback for the renders is pretty much 50/50 on bronze and black, at least in the team. I'm personally more in love with the red/black thing, but Christoffer said that I might need to brighten the red so the models stand out more. It's solid advice, I think I can fix it with better lighting. And speaking of lighting, here's my test scene in Blender.

If you're interested in the materials they are Cycles materials in Blender, made by the user "elbrujodelatribu" on Blend Swap. The person has given the materials a CC Zero license so use it as much as you're able. The bronze is pretty much out of the box, but the black onyx kind of deal is a tweaked rough silver material.

Here's another close-up.

Also, here's the finished text for the trailer. I realise after your feedback that I need a little bit more training to become a good poet, but, I'm content with giving our artist an outline so she can riff on it and make it better.

You are god.  

Indeed, write commandments to sway the crowd.

You see, my deity, usually it is a form of rule or decree.

But, indoctrination and misinformation continously corrupts.

The words takes on new strange and wondrous forms.

A religion now born, something that redefines your divinity.

Do not lose faith! Change is the only thing that always stays.

Fulfill your ambition as deity, see the people swear you fealty.

Because god you are.

Will try to give you an animated mockup of it all in a day or so!

[io3 creations]

Only looking at the images that you posted, I'd vote on with the "golden" one because of the detail clarity.  The silver one has a too many white and the black one has too many dark areas.  Changing certain material and/or light settings could probably improve them.  Also, some details can become more apparent when a 3d object (or the camera) is actually moving.

[JobLeonard]

Yeah, the golden is the easiest to read. You could try mixing  black and gold to give it a leopard look

[Greipur]

Thanks io3 creations and JobLeonard! I'm going for an in-between now, sort of. I've decided to use bronze as a symbolical material for the things that the god touches upon. So in the first sequence we see god handing a "word" or a commandment, and in the second one we'll see people bearing tools which is made of bronze. Cause and effect, god set something in motion is the feeling I want to convey.

I'm going for something a bit more stylised now, shadow puppet style, seems I'm coming back to my Lotte Reiniger roots from time to time.

Test animation with subtitles, of course without much of the trappings, such as camera panning. Of course I might revisit the lighting tomorrow, and fiddle with depth of field, though it won't be important for this first scene.





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Here's some more work on the actual game. Tomas has been keeping himself busy with the interface and decoration for the doctrines!

[JobLeonard]

The world needs more Lotte Reiniger-aesthetics, so I wholeheartedly support this going back to your roots!

[io3 creations]

I like the mix of colors.

My only issue now is that as I look at that image, it just seems like an taller person handing over something mysterious to a shorter one.  The older person doesn't strike me as a god. In fact, it's almost the opposite.  The extra clothing accessory details of the shorter person gives an impression of being "more" and I would probably think that person is more likely a god than the "simple" person on the left.  Even with the poses and text description the taller person seems "simpler" and doesn't appear like a god.  Again, just my subjective impression.

[Greipur]

Thanks for all the feedback! Regarding how the god figure makes you feel I see your point, I've added some unrealistic lighting for the object in their hands, and increased the size. Up until now the god figure has been designed as a naked and stripped down androgynous being, so I want to follow that theme here as well, the model being the one we use elsewhere. But it might be something that I can revisit during the Ancestor Worship module, we'll see.

I've gathered a lot of valuable feedback from you lot, but I think I'll keep the rest a secret until I launch the trailer on YouTube, which probably happens at the end of the next week.



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Jesper is more or less finished with the edit commandment interface now!