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TIGSource ForumsCommunityDevLogsReturn of the Obra Dinn [Releasing Oct 18]
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Author Topic: Return of the Obra Dinn [Releasing Oct 18]  (Read 933998 times)
christopf
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« Reply #420 on: December 12, 2014, 02:40:04 AM »

You make me even more hungry for 3d..looks already very promising
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oodavid
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« Reply #421 on: December 16, 2014, 08:48:42 AM »

Finally got round to playing the demo - wow, it looks and feels incredible!

I think you've found a way to tap into a powerful memory device, maybe as powerful as olfactory memory! Honestly, this took me right back to my Apple Macintosh days playing Glider and Shufflepuck, except somehow 3D, for a few beautiful minutes I was a child again, thank you.

Oh yeah, my flatmate played it too (non geek) and ranted and raved, he's a hard man to please.

Edit for critical feedback

I'm a quick reader, the on-screen text at the start was far too slow - later on with the voiceover it felt great and atmospheric, but without the voice it was annoying to have to wait such a long time to read the next sentence.
Also, the baseline of the text moved around a little - distracting for me.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2014, 08:54:24 AM by oodavid » Logged


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Qopzeep
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« Reply #422 on: December 18, 2014, 12:55:38 AM »

Registered to tell you just how much I loved this game. You know it's a good sign when the game ends with 'That's all for now', and you're like 'WHAT HAPPENS NEXT?!'  Crazy

I love how everyone is having his or her own personal nostalgia trip with your game. For me, it's a combination of The Manhole ("what do you expect of a blind mouse playing a piano made out of Swiss cheese?"), a game the name of which I can't remember (it was a kid's game, you went on a day out), Myst and the scene in the Matrix, where Morpheus freezes everything.

On another note, I noticed that the entire muster roll was empty. Storywise, I felt this was a bit weird. Lots of people died on those trips, and I'm guessing the Obra Dinn wasn't lost straight out of the port or they would've found it sooner. So maybe some people were already dead when shit started to hit the fan? Just a thought. It might tie in with your story as well.
 
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« Reply #423 on: December 19, 2014, 02:24:35 PM »

I would love to hear something about the process around the writing and voices. The awesome acting really brings out the best in the lofi graphics. I guess it makes you realize just how well-made and high-quality the whole thing is, not just retro cute.

I love how everyone is having his or her own personal nostalgia trip with your game.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Ray Dunakin's awesomely quirky old Mac adventure games! http://www.raydunakin.com/Site/Games.html
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starfox
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« Reply #424 on: January 03, 2015, 02:16:40 PM »

Incredible. Simply incredible.

No showcase of a title inspired me a sense of splendor and intrigue as this demo. The way the "Ghost Trick" scenes are such a well orchestrated moment and the song that plays.

I just hope the rest of the world, and i'm assuming there is one besides the ship, is as detailed and crafted with such deail and care as it was shown in this brief sneak peak.

I await great thing from you and your peers, Pope. stay dope.
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« Reply #425 on: January 05, 2015, 10:05:05 AM »

I just hope the rest of the world, and i'm assuming there is one besides the ship

From what we've heard it seems like the ship has quite a lot of space inside, and that actually you'll be exploring far more than just this top deck and cabin. So I'd assume the ship is the whole setting, Unless there's an ending surprise part or something.
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« Reply #426 on: January 05, 2015, 10:32:00 AM »

As a suggestion, what if we get to move around a boardwalk during the beginning dialog, and then actually board the ship?
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dukope
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« Reply #427 on: January 31, 2015, 09:00:46 PM »

Well, it's been a long time since I've had a chance to post here. Thanks again for all the feedback. After finishing the public dev build in October, I jumped straight onto porting Papers Please to iPad. That finished up in December and a bunch of family stuff has kept me from spending full time on Obra Dinn.

I did manage to make some progress though, on creating the ship's ropes, sails, and rigging. I thought this would be done in a few days but it ended up taking a few weeks. There was a lot more technical work than I expected, and several different systems that I needed to figure out in Maya and the game. I'll list what I ended up with for each system and the stuff I tried before getting there.

Maya Script Ops

Before that though, a brief explanation of the scripting setup for this project in Maya. I mentioned way upthread that I prefer modifier-based editing over Maya's lossy system. To get that working, I attach custom commands to a node's "notes" attribute (editable directly in Maya).


Notes attached to a node in Maya


Then I've got a big "applyOps()" script command bound to Cmd-R. When I hit Cmd-R, it duplicates the object, applies all the commands, then hides the original. If I Cmd-R on the opped copy, it deletes that copy and unhides the original again. So I can quickly tweak the geometry and commands. Each time there's some new operation I need, I add it to the applyOps() function. There are already tons of commands like "cut", "add", "combine" (boolean operations), "bend", "pieces" (split into pieces), "duplicate_reflect", "material", etc.

The system isn't perfect (I can't edit and see the results at the same time for instance) but it's good enough. And there's an unintended benefit to staying out of Maya's construction history that I'll talk about below.


Rigged Ropes

All the rigged ropes are generated from Maya curves. The "rope" command allows me to specify non-rope geometry to place at the start and end for pulleys, deadeyes, etc. And I can also easily add a slight sag to the geometry.


Pressing Cmd-R on a bunch of curves to generate ropes+pulleys


At the beginning I tried hand-modeling a single rope, then instancing it across the ship but that turned out to be a huge pain in the ass. Placing ropes is much easier if you can just drag the two endpoints of a curve around. Getting that to work requires scripting/engineering work as opposed to artistic sweat.

"Ladder" ropes are also really hard to do by hand. After a few tries I gave up and wrote a script for that too.


Script-generation of crossing ladder ropes


In Maya I apply a "vertical" or "horizontal" material to each rope, which gets picked up in the game to generate special uv-coords on import. These coords are used by the vertex shader to flap the ropes around in the wind while keeping the ends pinned. Generally-vertical ropes flap differently from generally-horizontal ones. Getting sets of ropes (the shrouds for climbing the masts) to flap around in sync required some extra work.

Using a vertex shader for this animation allows Unity to consider all the rope meshes as "static" and batch them together to save draw calls. That ends up being a big win. The downside is that I don't have a good way to treat the the pulley verts on the end differently from the ropes, so there's some unwanted warping there.


Flapping ropes


Booms

The sail booms are pretty simple except that they have ropes attached to them. So if I want to swing the booms back and forth a bit, the ropes need to somehow move with them. If I had a true in-game rope system this would probably be easy, but all the rope geometry is baked/static.

I ended up generating skinned meshes on import to Unity, with definitions in the Maya file for how each attached rope should be bound.


Instructions for the importer to generate a skinned mesh bound to transforms with certain weights


This technique creates a slightly-unnatural bending in the attached ropes and they don't slacken/tighten correctly. But it also doesn't interfere with the flapping vertex shader and as long as the attached ropes are long and the movement is subtle it looks fine.


Ropes attached to swinging booms using skinned meshes


Sails

The flapping vertex shader worked great on the ropes so I tried the same thing with the sail fabric. Unfortunately, flapping 2D cloth is a lot more complex than anchored 1D ropes. After some unfruitful vertex shading experiments I discovered that Unity has a built-in cloth system. The editing interface is buggy beyond useless, but you can set the cloth coefficients directly in code no-problem. The results run fast and look good enough.


Torn sails using Unity cloth


For better performance, the cloth is non-colliding. This requires some special modeling to guarantee no intersections - and a constant wind force from behind to push the sails away from the masts and all the rigging.

I use the texture v coordinate to specify whether a cloth vert should be pinned or not. Using UVs like this, and not for actual texturing, has been a common and really useful trick for this project.


Using texcoord V value to specify cloth coefficients


Rendering for the sails is slightly different: they're two-sided and use a special lighting function to make them fully-white when viewed from the front and fully-black when viewed from the back. I found that proper lighting makes them too distracting, especially with the low-poly cloth-friendly geometry and all the ropes passing around.


Piled Ropes

One thing I learned in researching all this rope rigging bullshit is that old sailing ships were basically just wooden boxes full of ropes. The amount of ropes holding everything together is staggering. I don't even have all the rigging in place and it's already distracting to look up and see all those lines.

On top of the rigged ropes though, these ships also had a ton of coiled and piled ropes just lying about - ready to be used quickly. I wanted to capture this sense of excess by leaving realistically-coiled ropes all over the deck. My first attempt at that was hand-modeled and is visible in the first dev build as a tire-looking thing on the aft deck:


Original piled rope. Don't steal.


To get these looking right, I needed technology: dynamics. Maya Complete has a great nDynamics system built in, but up until recently I've been using Maya LT, which has exactly nothing. This was the final straw for me working around Maya LT's limitations though so I finally cracked and bought a license for Maya Complete. My thanks again to the success of Papers Please that I can make purchases like this; Maya Complete is expensive.

The enormous downside of upgrading to Maya Complete at this point is that it can't open any file generated by Maya LT (.mlt). That's purely a marketing/DRM thing from Autodesk - they don't want studios buying lots of cheap LT licenses for their animators while the TDs use one or two expensive Maya Complete copies for the heavy lifting. It makes sense tbh, but it really sucks when you're like me and just want to upgrade your single-seat studio to the full version.

The recommended path for LT->Complete is through FBX export/import. Unfortunately and predictably this loses tons of information, most critically all HumanIK properties and all node construction history. I haven't tackled HumanIK yet, but the heavens shine on me for construction history. Since I'm using my simple applyOps() system for most of the complex modeling I can just delete the "opped" output meshes in the imported FBX and regenerate them in Maya Complete.

Now that the ship scene has been transferred to Maya Complete (.ma) I have access to nDynamics. Specifically, the hair follicles system is just right for taking a hand-modeled curve, giving it dynamic properties to have it fall in a pile, then converting it to a rope using my existing scripts.


Using hair dynamics in Maya Complete to physicalize/drop/collide a curve


In practice there are plenty of small complications with the scripting here: detecting and temporarily physicalizing all meshes beneath the rope, choosing dynamics properties for a good shape, running the simulation for a few frames, optimizing the output curve shape, converting to a polygon rope, adding color bands for in-game rendering, etc. But all told I'm really happy with this. So far I've only added a few loose and piled ropes but it's so quick that I'll hit my target of "way too many ropes lying about" easily.


O.S.H.A violation

The crew couldn't tidy up before dying violently


Rendering

Ok, one last thing. Something I worried about for a while was how exactly to render all the rigging ropes. Drawing them with the standard outlines looks ok close up, but ends up generating too much visual chatter and thickness for distant ropes. The fix is to LOD the ropes so the outlines stop rendering at a certain distance.


Dropping outlines on distant ropes


From Here

Most of this rigging work so far is for the main realtime scene. The flashbacks won't have any movement so the vertex animation, skinning, and cloth will all be baked/modeled straight in Maya. I've purposely held off on filling out all the rigging in this scene since I won't know exactly how it'll look until more flashbacks are implemented.


Timelapse

Several weeks of sporadic work compressed into 18 minutes. Skip to ~17:10 to see a short in-game walkthrough of the final results.

« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 10:17:46 PM by dukope » Logged

shpen
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« Reply #428 on: January 31, 2015, 09:16:38 PM »

Honestly, I don't think the pulleys on the ladder ropes look weird, at least at the level of flapping you have them doing now. Maybe if they stretched further it would look more gelatinous, but right now it looks fine.
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« Reply #429 on: January 31, 2015, 11:21:53 PM »

The scene looks so rich in motion.
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« Reply #430 on: January 31, 2015, 11:41:10 PM »

I wondered what that circular item was at the back of the ship.  All the new rigging looks stellar.  If you weren't pointing it out, I seriously doubt I'd ever notice any unnatural movement to the pulleys or boom ropes, and even then it's subtle - at least in the images you've posted.
My first instinct watching the time-lapse is to suggest that perhaps you don't need a technically "realistic" number of ropes for the rigging to make the ship believable.  That said, I do respect your dedication to authenticity.
The walkaround looks great and the rigging really brings the ship to life, though I wonder if the rope shadows might be a bit too crisp?
I continue to anxiously await an opportunity to clamber about the Obra Dinn.
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surt
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« Reply #431 on: February 01, 2015, 12:00:07 AM »

Looking awesome.

The perfect unbroken rigging looks a bit odd against the tattered sail. A few broken lines would help I think. At least a few in the ratlines.
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« Reply #432 on: February 01, 2015, 12:06:23 AM »

I watched a play through of this on youtube - such a brilliant idea and so visually unique.
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« Reply #433 on: February 01, 2015, 01:53:22 AM »

Looks beautiful. What are the chances of me tripping up on all that loose rope on the deck as I walk around staring up at the rigging? Smiley
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« Reply #434 on: February 01, 2015, 04:28:09 AM »

Lord, this is beautiful! It just gets better and better.

(One small suggestion: the pedant in me couldn't help but wonder how the sails got shredded into strips of equal width...)
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« Reply #435 on: February 01, 2015, 04:54:37 AM »

(One small suggestion: the pedant in me couldn't help but wonder how the sails got shredded into strips of equal width...)

I'm guessing the sails were made by stitching together strips of fabric of equal width?
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dukope
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« Reply #436 on: February 01, 2015, 08:40:05 AM »

Honestly, I don't think the pulleys on the ladder ropes look weird, at least at the level of flapping you have them doing now. Maybe if they stretched further it would look more gelatinous, but right now it looks fine.

I tried to tune it so it's not too obvious. You can see it more clearly up close but this is probably something I won't try to fix.

[...] I wonder if the rope shadows might be a bit too crisp?

You're right, they are a bit sharp. I'll see if using softer shadows looks ok and doesn't kill performance.

The perfect unbroken rigging looks a bit odd against the tattered sail. A few broken lines would help I think. At least a few in the ratlines.

Yeah, the current rigging is too perfect for what the ship's been through. I'll break a bunch of ropes and masts after figuring out the exact damage later.

I'm guessing the sails were made by stitching together strips of fabric of equal width?

Right, that's the idea. I tried putting a grid of squares instead of the vertical strips and it was a little too busy.
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Panurge
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« Reply #437 on: February 01, 2015, 02:56:57 PM »


I'm guessing the sails were made by stitching together strips of fabric of equal width?

Right, that's the idea. I tried putting a grid of squares instead of the vertical strips and it was a little too busy.

Ah, that makes an embarrassing amount of sense! As you were. Smiley
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« Reply #438 on: February 01, 2015, 07:22:44 PM »

the ship is so visually dense but isn't fatiguing

really good
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« Reply #439 on: February 02, 2015, 05:41:54 AM »

Gosh the ship looks so much more 'alive' now with the ropes and sails..
As previously said, yes, the ropes need some holes and rips and whatnot in them, to fit the condition of the sails. Together with them, the deck seems to be in a bit too god a shape, considering the damage to the sails (It looks like one of the sails in the front has been hit by a cannonball, but there's no other marks of it anywhere :D)

But, since you said you don't accurately know what has happened, it's not yet such a big deal.

The stretching of the pulleys is subtle enough, the circular parts don't stretch too much compared to the ropes, and it looks quite natural (at least from a distance). And, they're gorgeous anyhow :D

Keep up the awesomeness o/
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