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April 23, 2024, 09:05:31 AM

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Fenrir
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« Reply #100 on: April 07, 2015, 03:12:38 AM »

Thanks a lot for all the info! I'm quite amazed to see that for a project like yours with such a hype you were not overwhelmed by deal propositions and you had to look for them!
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acatalept
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« Reply #101 on: April 30, 2015, 09:05:10 AM »

@MattySmits Thanks for the infodump, really happy to know this project is alive and well!  As an aside, I can't wait to try *redacted*, everything about this whole experience looks so good...

I'm quite amazed to see that for a project like yours with such a hype you were not overwhelmed by deal propositions

Agreed, I'd think especially in the void left by the absentee Last Guardian, there would be a lot of clamoring for something that takes a page or two from Team Ico's works.

Would a Kickstarter help?  It won't magically solve all your money problems (and can easily become a full-time job in itself), but I'd be first in line to back it Wink

Good luck!
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oahda
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« Reply #102 on: May 20, 2015, 01:34:29 AM »

What with the bird transformation, is this the origin of the game's name?

Quote
The flattened, weblike part of a feather, consisting of a series of barbs on either side of the shaft.
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MattySmits
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« Reply #103 on: August 19, 2015, 12:54:10 AM »

Hi all,


Matt here with an update!

We’re honestly trying to be better about our devlogs; without going into too much detail I think we’ll be improving going forward, with a few unrefined short posts per month rather than one big dump every couple of months.

With that aside, I’ve been working on our bird flight mechanics - the bird character plays a large part in Vane, and we wanted to make sure we get the flight input and mechanics exactly right.

The old system was what I call “Magic Airplane” - it turns left and right sort of magically, and the roll is just a cosmetic incidental (we were actually doing it with an anim blend).  The algorithm was basically:

-Get turn inputs in yaw and pitch (horizontal and vertical)
-apply turn inputs
-apply small downward velocity to simulate gravity
-set animation blends to reflect state (wings position, roll)
-increase velocity when going down, decrease when going up
-increase velocity when flapping, decrease when braking
Here’s a look in a test environment:

"Magic Airplane" model

 
It didn’t feel *bad* per se; we got a lot of good feedback at GDC and BitSummit.  But we felt like we could do better - the motion felt “mechanical”, to generously quote our Art Director Rasmus.  I also had a technical ax to grind; my implementation of control systems wasn’t where I wanted it to be (more on that in another devlog.).

 
A big focus for us on Vane is verisimilitude; we want all of our systems, stories, and mythology to be internally consistent.  With that in mind, I set about reworking the flight mechanics to be more “physics-y” and less robotic.
 

The new algorithm looks like:

-Get horizontal & vertical turn inputs
-Apply vertical to pitch, and horizontal to *roll*
-derive a yaw from roll in order to simulate the complex motion of air past the wings of the bird
-apply lift based on current velocity & wing state (open/closed)
-include small amount of forward thrust to simulate a forward-biased angle of attack
-note that lift is in the local up direction
-apply forward thrust and upward lift from flapping
-apply air resistance based on current velocity; includes an increased resistance when turning
-apply an additional resistance force when braking, including an auto-brake system for when about to crash into stuff (environmental awareness for the characters is a big focus for us, we’ll talk about that more later)
-apply gravity
-lerp velocity towards heading to make direction intuitive and compensate for the fact that this is a bad physical model
-apply animation states
This is nowhere close to an actual, physical model of bird flight; it’s using unit weights and very rough approximations of forces, and the lerp is almost like cheating in a way.  But the results were positive:

"PSEUDO PHYSICS" Model


The difference is hard to see in a GIF, but we’re happy so far; the flight feels a bit more authentic and a lot less mechanical.  There’s still a lot of work to do - for example, I’d like the animation to be much more responsive and evocative - but we can tackle a lot of that in the coming months.  The camera motion (it tilts a little bit) is also really important but also the topic of another blog.
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Greipur
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« Reply #104 on: August 19, 2015, 12:57:58 AM »

I think the new flight model looks much better, I can feel it through the gif that the air has actual resistance. Wink
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MattySmits
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« Reply #105 on: August 19, 2015, 04:53:47 PM »

Thanks Greipur!  Still a work in progress but it's a promising direction we think!
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oahda
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« Reply #106 on: August 20, 2015, 02:24:10 AM »

Heh. An update like a day after I went back to check whether you'd replied to my last message and you still hadn't updated the thread since. Tongue

Looks pretty good but shouldn't the bird flap its wings sometimes?
« Last Edit: August 20, 2015, 05:00:40 AM by Prinsessa » Logged

nnyei
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« Reply #107 on: August 20, 2015, 04:10:22 AM »

I've seen this game featured on many sites, but I had no idea you guys also had a thread here. I'm so, so very hyped for this game, but yeah, please do update more.
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MattySmits
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« Reply #108 on: August 20, 2015, 04:32:03 PM »

Heh. An update like a day after I went back to check whether you'd replied to my last message and you still hadn't updated the thread since. Tongue

Looks pretty good but shouldn't the bird flap its wings sometimes?

Prinsessa: The bird does flap!  It's a player controlled action.  Also, we'll probably work some ambient stuff in there too; keep in mind nothing in those gifs is final!

Oh, and to your previous question(sorry about the looooong wait): We'd never heard of that usage of the word but it did inspire some discussion around the office!
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oahda
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« Reply #109 on: August 26, 2015, 05:11:29 AM »

Cool. C: So in what sense did you mean "vane" then?

But there's no flapping in those GIF's, right, or am I blind? Would be cool to see what that looks like too, if not. Hand Thumbs Up Left
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acatalept
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« Reply #110 on: January 12, 2016, 10:19:49 AM »

For those wondering, Vane is alive and well (and looking better than ever):

http://www.friendandfoegames.com/devlog-vane/2015/11/6/worldbuilding-design-lessons-part-1

« Last Edit: November 14, 2016, 11:28:26 AM by acatalept » Logged

io3 creations
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« Reply #111 on: January 24, 2016, 05:02:54 PM »

Looking good so far.  Hopefully, there'll be a video update soon-ish.  Smiley
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« Reply #112 on: January 25, 2016, 05:29:23 PM »

Hey guys, big thanks to Acatalept for posting our updates for us, we clearly need it Wink <3

Here's the link to that behind-the-scenes thingy that the forums seems to have eaten from his post:



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« Reply #113 on: January 25, 2016, 11:29:49 PM »

Good video! It was interesting to see the studio. Looking forward to hearing more news.
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io3 creations
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« Reply #114 on: January 27, 2016, 01:58:13 PM »

Thanks for mentioning the video.  Things are looking good.

Now that you're at the end of pre-production we can expect more regular updates, right? Smiley
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oahda
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« Reply #115 on: January 28, 2016, 04:09:32 AM »

dat professionalism
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io3 creations
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« Reply #116 on: January 28, 2016, 09:52:20 AM »

Looks pretty good but shouldn't the bird flap its wings sometimes?

Looks like your wish has been granted @2:24.   Grin
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rj
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« Reply #117 on: August 18, 2016, 03:02:05 AM »

still excited for this
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MattySmits
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« Reply #118 on: January 22, 2017, 09:51:44 PM »

Hi guys, it's only been like 2 years since the last post...  Concerned

PSX! or, why go to a game show?

Getting out to a game show is a pain in the butt.  Your build doesn’t work.  It runs slow on your target platform.  Even if it worked you’re not ready for the public to see it.  Even if you were ready for the public to see it, you need to book a flight, coordinate with the people running the show, find local help to staff the booth (unless you’re planning on never going to the bathroom), schedule time away from the actual development.  You need a trailer to maximise the PR boost you get - and that’s weeks of work right there.  For a game like Vane, best enjoyed in a relaxed setting with enough time to savor it, a show floor is possibly the worst possible venue - it’s noisy, crowded, busy, and there’s a good chance your atmospheric, contemplative game might be right next to a multi-story murder city.  But it’s crucial to go despite the difficulties.

A cornerstone of any creative effort is getting outside opinions, and at PSX we got to show our game to a wide group of people. Some of them had seen our latest trailer:





in the PSX Showcase (thanks Sony!) and were curious from that; but many hadn’t even heard of Vane.   We saw their expressions as they played, heard their impressions when they were finished with the (buggy, problematic) demo.  In those impressions was a lot of direct feedback to our systems - how well our control systems met our expectations, how obtuse our open world section is. We logged a ton of bugs and slapped our foreheads at the ones we didn’t fix before going.

But just as important, there’s implicit information you get from watching fresh hands work your game.  What they don’t do is as revealing as what they do. Too much aimless wandering in our opening desert is obviously not what we want; but a direct path from the beginning to the end undercuts any sense of exploration.  If players don’t notice the signposts we used to mark an exploratory section, maybe it’s time to up the contrast and make those elements more visible, but if something stands out too much it can send the wrong signal and cause frustration as players try to interact with what's just a piece of scenery.

More crucially though - the people who played Vane got it.  Almost everyone who tried the demo turned to us afterwards said the game felt different, intriguing, and (whew) that they’d like to buy it when it was done.  For us, toiling away in relative isolation, hearing this kind of affirmation was a huge, sorely needed, boost to confidence.

We made a choice at the start of this project to do something unusual, and for us that meant throwing away a lot of key tricks in the game developer’s arsenal, and trying to take a fresh look at the ones we kept.  The mood we came up with didn’t feel like a traditional game and we didn’t want to do it a disservice by sticking it in a fetch-quest structure.  But going down this path it was easy to second-guess ourselves, and we have - many times.  At some point working on a game you get inured to its magic, since you’ve seen it’s treasures so many times that they’ve become routine.  While some players sought us out from our trailer, some players knew us from before PSX, many players came to our booth just for the nifty trading cards that Sony was kind enough to provide.  The feeling of an uncommitted player, playing your game from a desire for swag, but walking away with a smile on their face - that feeling justified the stress.  The road we’re on is the right one.

And on top of that - coming away from PSX, we got a very clear picture of what our game does well (mood, visuals, sound, mystery), and where it falls flat (mechanics, guidance, being bug-free).  So making the trip to PSX let us show the world how far we’ve come, but also helped clarify where we’re going, and gave us a little kick in the pants to start this next stage of the journey.  Absolutely worth the trouble.


A cozy booth, and the noisy backside of a slaughterhouse


Sony made these awesome trading cards for us that show-goers collect as a kind of metagame


Two bad dudes sent on an incredible mission  (Raz, L, and Matt, R)

Just to reassure you guys... the game is absolutely still alive and we're hard at work at it.  Putting aside the time to write these things is just... hard  Hand Any Key
« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 09:57:12 PM by MattySmits » Logged
Tuba
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« Reply #119 on: January 23, 2017, 03:42:16 AM »

Thanks for sharing that experience.

The trailer is looking nice and really sells the game. Smiley
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