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[CoderGamesStrikesBack]

Hey guys, I'm back!

Give me a second chance, I'm not Phil Fish. I do think however that the stress was the main cause of his erratic behavior and twisted attitudes. Stress affects different people differently. I'm sure we have all experienced that in our lives. And the life of an independent game developer is very stressful, the part that is not related to the game development.

I'd like to tell you about my latest game called Invader Attack 2. It's not really a sequel to a self-award winning title bearing the same name just without the number after it, Invader Attack, but rather a step forward in every direction and aspect.

I'd like your amazing constructive criticisms showering me all over with golden glimmer and warmth.

Game's profile page on IndieDB: http://www.indiedb.com/games/invader-attack-2

Game's details page including demo download, trailer (skipping frames) and screenshots: Invader Attack 2, 3D PC Windows shmup game

I'm sure you all have beasts, but I still need to tell you that the game does require a decent video card with Shader 2.0 supported and at least a 2Ghz CPU for smooth playing at max fps.

The game is sort of an early access, but almost done, only 6 levels missing, final boss and the game ending.

There are many types of enemies, bosses, power-ups, levels and achievements. Replayability is high since the behavior of enemies is unpredictable, I programmed dozens of AIs that are making decisions on the fly, still making sure they're not unbeatable.

The demo has only 1 playable level.

[Quicksand-S]

I never played the original, as far as I can remember, so my feedback is only about this game and not comparing it to the last one. Please note that I'm pointing out issues in order to help, not to discourage, and that a lot of this is just my personal opinion.

-The mouse movement in the menu is very slow and overly smoothed, with no option to change any of that.
-It feels wrong that it's a game that supports a gamepad but the menu requires me to use the mouse. I guess there are a lot of games like that, but it would be nice if this wasn't the case.
-There's a strange lack of sound when starting the level. Maybe start the music earlier or have some sort of "building up to the action" sound.
-It's difficult to tell what is dangerous and what isn't. I avoided debris (which is apparently harmless) only to get blown up by the "dead" enemy ships that I didn't expect to hurt me.
-The game window minimized when I died. When I reopened it, the menu's background was shaking back and forth for some reason and it was no longer in full-screen mode.
-I had no issues with the keyboard control. The gamepad control, however...Well, the first thing it did was send me flying diagonally into an enemy. It absolutely needs a deadzone. I couldn't comfortably control my ship at all.
-Also, using the right stick and the face buttons meant that I was using the same finger for all actions, which doesn't really work great. Maybe consider using both sticks for movement, so players can choose, and letting the shoulder buttons (or, ideally, the triggers) be used for shooting.
-Why can the player move up and down? I couldn't see any purpose to that, since enemy shots always seemed to come from above.

I know there's a chance that this demo isn't a good representation of the game, but I found it very boring. All I did was go back and forth at one side, shooting constantly and avoiding falling enemies. Nothing ever really changed. Enemies don't normally move or do anything interesting. There aren't any other types of enemy that show up to add some variety. The powerups always flew off to the side much faster than my ship could move, so I never got any of them. They don't seem necessary, though.

The game may just need to feel more dynamic/energetic. Maybe the enemies should make those random attack runs more often and have a wider variety of possible paths. Different enemy types could appear to require changes to the player's strategy (ex. enemies that shoot diagonally or something). Maybe the enemies could switch up their formations after a certain amount of time. You've got a lot of options. The basic mechanics work pretty well, apart from the gamepad issues, and the graphics are pretty nice. It just needs more movement and gameplay variety, in my opinion.

[CoderGamesStrikesBack]

-The mouse movement in the menu is very slow and overly smoothed, with no option to change any of that.

Then it's a good thing the game is not played with the mouse. However, you can change settings for your mouse in the control panel, the mouse worked well for me and both beta testers. No one else who played the game complained either.

-It feels wrong that it's a game that supports a gamepad but the menu requires me to use the mouse. I guess there are a lot of games like that, but it would be nice if this wasn't the case.

You can use keyboard keys, same as you usually use in the browser, like TAB to jump from one option to another, RETURN / ENTER to select it, etc. This is a Windows game and will not be released on any other platform. So you have a gamepad attached, that's why you get that option, others who do not have it attached won't see that option at all.

-There's a strange lack of sound when starting the level. Maybe start the music earlier or have some sort of "building up to the action" sound.

Awesome suggestion!

-It's difficult to tell what is dangerous and what isn't. I avoided debris (which is apparently harmless) only to get blown up by the "dead" enemy ships that I didn't expect to hurt me.

Ah, the debris flies away from the platform, therefore above you, but the enemies do fall directly at you, because they're heavy. The debris is not heavy so it is pushed by the force of explosion. Once you figure this out, it's the same from that point forward.

-The game window minimized when I died. When I reopened it, the menu's background was shaking back and forth for some reason and it was no longer in full-screen mode.

Yes, because of the hiscore submission. It minimizes the windows and opens up a browser. Then when you get back there's an option inside the menu to switch back to full screen. I cannot possibly know when you will stop looking at the hiscore table to switch it back automatically for you. Thanks for reporting the shaking of the screen. I'll debug to see what's going on.

-I had no issues with the keyboard control. The gamepad control, however...Well, the first thing it did was send me flying diagonally into an enemy. It absolutely needs a deadzone. I couldn't comfortably control my ship at all.
-Also, using the right stick and the face buttons meant that I was using the same finger for all actions, which doesn't really work great. Maybe consider using both sticks for movement, so players can choose, and letting the shoulder buttons (or, ideally, the triggers) be used for shooting.

Yes, turn off analog. I don't know which gamepad you have, but there's usually a button in the middle that is turned on by default, you should turn it off to stop using analog sticks and use normal ones. This is not the game that depends on the amount of the movement you make, it's either you go left or right, up or down or any combination of this, there's no point in going slightly left and 65% upward.

-Why can the player move up and down? I couldn't see any purpose to that, since enemy shots always seemed to come from above.

Well, I uploaded an early video of one of the boss levels, you didn't watch it on my channel, obviously. It fired missiles on me, I tricked missiles into going in the direction of the boss when I positioned myself on his right while the missiles are coming from the left:



People who reviewed original Invader Attack asked me why I didn't make player be able to move in all directions.

I know there's a chance that this demo isn't a good representation of the game, but I found it very boring. All I did was go back and forth at one side, shooting constantly and avoiding falling enemies. Nothing ever really changed. Enemies don't normally move or do anything interesting. There aren't any other types of enemy that show up to add some variety. The powerups always flew off to the side much faster than my ship could move, so I never got any of them. They don't seem necessary, though.

Yes, there's only one level in the demo and only one type of enemy, one of many. Each enemy has different abilities apart from different AI, but they're much harder to beat and you need a bit of thinking and strategy. If you were unable to cope with the easiest enemy that doesn't have any abilities and special properties, you'd have a hard time passing the second level.

The game may just need to feel more dynamic/energetic. Maybe the enemies should make those random attack runs more often and have a wider variety of possible paths. Different enemy types could appear to require changes to the player's strategy (ex. enemies that shoot diagonally or something). Maybe the enemies could switch up their formations after a certain amount of time. You've got a lot of options. The basic mechanics work pretty well, apart from the gamepad issues, and the graphics are pretty nice. It just needs more movement and gameplay variety, in my opinion.

Too bad you didn't manage to pass the initial waves of enemies because then you would have seen the things you speak of during transition to the second level. Please give it another try and do your best this time.

Thanks for your constructive criticism, it was awesome!

[Quicksand-S]

However, you can change settings for your mouse in the control panel, the mouse worked well for me and both beta testers. No one else who played the game complained either.

It has nothing to do with my mouse settings on the computer. It's perfectly responsive in Windows and other games. It seems very much like some form of mouse smoothing is enabled in your engine. I imagine that people just don't mention it because it doesn't affect gameplay. The menu works just fine. I mentioned the "issue" only because there didn't seem to be any reason for it to exist.

You can use keyboard keys, same as you usually use in the browser, like TAB to jump from one option to another, RETURN / ENTER to select it, etc.

Good to know.

It minimizes the windows and opens up a browser. Then when you get back there's an option inside the menu to switch back to full screen.

I see. Well, that's just a matter of preference again. I hate using online high score tables, especially when they interrupt my gameplay. Maybe the game could ask if I want to save my high score?

Yes, turn off analog. I don't know which gamepad you have, but there's usually a button in the middle that is turned on by default, you should turn it off to stop using analog sticks and use normal ones. This is not the game that depends on the amount of the movement you make, it's either you go left or right, up or down or any combination of this, there's no point in going slightly left and 65% upward.

I'm using a wired 360 gamepad, which seems to be the current "standard" for PC gamepads. If it doesn't work well with that, it should probably be made to. At least the keyboard control works great.

Yes, there's only one level in the demo and only one type of enemy, one of many. Each enemy has different abilities apart from different AI, but they're much harder to beat and you need a bit of thinking and strategy. If you were unable to cope with the easiest enemy that doesn't have any abilities and special properties, you'd have a hard time passing the second level.

I quit because I got bored after killing quite a few of them and seeing that it never changed anything. It wasn't because of any sort of challenge. The demo gave the impression that it would go on like that forever, and that I was just supposed to try for a high score against unchanging enemies. I'm curious how many enemies I have to kill to get to the good stuff you mentioned (the transition to level 2). I think I got bored at around twenty, since I was just performing the same actions the entire time. Every time I saw a new enemy spawn, I got discouraged because I felt like I wasn't any closer to being done.

Since you say that there's more variety later, then I would suggest showing players that much sooner. The demo just makes it feel like there's nothing to the game, when it should really be making me want to keep playing. As it is, I don't have any interest in killing the same enemies over and over and over to get to the good stuff. A player who hasn't watched videos and doesn't have the benefit of talking with you wouldn't even know that later parts of the game are so much more interesting.

A lot of demos give players a chance to play a level somewhere in the middle of the game, so they can see what they have to look forward to in the full game. Maybe that would be a good idea here.

[CoderGamesStrikesBack]

I see. Well, that's just a matter of preference again. I hate using online high score tables, especially when they interrupt my gameplay. Maybe the game could ask if I want to save my high score?

In my older games there were people cheating, so I came up with the solution to prevent any possible cheating. There's an advanced hiscore and achievements system in the game. The game is hard and I want people to be able to show their success, hiscore and achievements should be respected and I think I did a good job, we'll see.

I'm using a wired 360 gamepad, which seems to be the current "standard" for PC gamepads. If it doesn't work well with that, it should probably be made to. At least the keyboard control works great.

Should work normally, it has nothing to do with the gamepad, the movement doesn't depend on how far you push anything, it just moves the player into the direction. I misunderstood what you originally said. The logic is simple, if you point the stick to the left, the ship is moved not the amount you pushed it, but the same amount as if you pressed the left key on the keyboard.

Since you say that there's more variety later, then I would suggest showing players that much sooner. The demo just makes it feel like there's nothing to the game, when it should really be making me want to keep playing...A lot of demos give players a chance to play a level somewhere in the middle of the game, so they can see what they have to look forward to in the full game. Maybe that would be a good idea here.

There's a trailer that shows a bit more. The trailer skips frames, but that's my fault, I messed up the editing of the videos in the last moment and just didn't wish to spend more time working on it, it took too much already. Still it should be enough for a trailer, not to show too much but just enough.

Thanks again, good stuff really, you're helping me out a lot.

[Quicksand-S]

Every time I go to start up the game, I have to pick my profile. Any chance you'd consider loading the latest profile automatically? A menu option to change the profile in the less common case that a computer has multiple players on it would probably make things more streamlined.

In my older games there were people cheating, so I came up with the solution to prevent any possible cheating. There's an advanced hiscore and achievements system in the game. The game is hard and I want people to be able to show their success, hiscore and achievements should be respected and I think I did a good job, we'll see.

Makes sense. I tend to like that sort of thing to be completely optional, but it seems I may not be your target audience.

Should work normally, it has nothing to do with the gamepad, the movement doesn't depend on how far you push anything, it just moves the player into the direction. I misunderstood what you originally said. The logic is simple, if you point the stick to the left, the ship is moved not the amount you pushed it, but the same amount as if you pressed the left key on the keyboard.

That's fine, but when I let go of the stick there's no deadzone implemented in the game so if the stick is even a tiiiiny bit off-center (which it always is) then the ship moves. If you put in a minimum distance that the stick needs to be pushed in order to cause movement, that'll solve the major issue I have with the gamepad.

The other issue, though, is that it's using the wrong thumbstick...sometimes. The first time I tried it, I had to use the same thumb for shooting and moving. Now it's using the left thumbstick like it should. Weird bug.

I'm glad you're taking my feedback well. Sometimes I get concerned that I might be coming across as too negative. Happy to help.

[CoderGamesStrikesBack]

I could make the change regarding the profiles and add a new button into main menu for changing the profile, but these things are not really game related. I noticed that in many games you pick profile at the start of the game and then forget about it, but you may wish to change your hiscore name, which is the profile name the next time you run it. Is this really such a big issue for you?

My target audience are experienced shmup players who're looking for fast-paced aggressive type of game that is hard enough to present a serious challenge with replayability due to unpredictability of enemies.

I think I understand what you mean by gamepad problems. For example I have 2 analog sticks, which are sensitive and do not work properly if they're not calibrated. Sounds like you didn't calibrate the gamepad. You can do so by visiting control panel's gamepad icon and clicking calibration. Just follow the tests and it will be centered. But, I also have normal movement buttons on my gamepad's left side, besides the left analog stick. I also have a middle button which switches left analog stick to a digital one, the one on the left, if I prefer to play it with the stick instead of buttons. Do you have those?

[Quicksand-S]

I could make the change regarding the profiles ... Is this really such a big issue for you?

It's not a huge issue, but I'm never a fan of things that make it take longer to get to (or back to) the actual game. It's the same issue I have with the browser opening when I quit a level. It's not that it doesn't work fine. It just makes it take longer for me to get back to actually playing, which is why I'm running the game in the first place.

In this case, it may be that it's irritating me more than usual because I've re-opened the game multiple times in a short period.

My target audience are experienced shmup players who're looking for fast-paced aggressive type of game that is hard enough to present a serious challenge with replayability due to unpredictability of enemies.

If you're hoping to attract people who want a fast-paced game or a challenge, the demo probably won't do it. I think maybe that's the main issue here. Your game could be incredible, but the demo doesn't show that. Hopefully you'll get more comments on this post from other people. I'm curious to see if others will get the same impression I did.

I think I understand what you mean by gamepad problems. For example I have 2 analog sticks, which are sensitive and do not work properly if they're not calibrated. Sounds like you didn't calibrate the gamepad...I also have a middle button which switches left analog stick to a digital one, the one on the left, if I prefer to play it with the stick instead of buttons. Do you have those?

The gamepad is calibrated. The stick, when at its default position, just isn't locked perfectly in place. There's a tiny bit of wiggle room which is apparently detected by the computer. That's why most games ignore the small values and only react if the stick is pushed past a certain distance.

I don't have any button to switch to/from analog control. I tried the directional pad, but it didn't have any effect in-game (or maybe it was overpowered by the problems with the thumbstick).

On a completely unrelated note, is there any chance of a loading screen being added? The first time I played, I thought the game had crashed when I got a black screen for a second after trying to start the level.

[CoderGamesStrikesBack]

The loading screen was added, but won't be released until I finish the final 6 levels and the boss. The game now has only 44 levels or 88 if you count a transition as a separate level which is the mistake both beta testers made.

I'll investigate the gamepad problem further, but it's odd 

I hope that the trailer provides more of the gameplay to potential gamers if the demo is not enough. What's you opinion on the trailer?

[Quicksand-S]

I'll investigate the gamepad problem further, but it's odd 

Not really. From what I've seen, it's incredibly common for gamepad thumbsticks to end up like this at some point. Every other game I can think of that uses a gamepad handles mine just fine so they must have a deadzone implemented.

As for the trailer, not everyone watches videos before playing games, and most of us probably know that trailers often skew reality a bit. I generally rely much more on my impressions of a demo, if one exists.

Had I not played that demo, I think your trailer might've made me want to. It comes across as action-packed until I pay more attention to the enemies and realize that they almost never move. If I just let the music, explosions and relatively quick cuts be my focus, then it looks much better. The fact that it almost makes me want to play the game more, despite the fact that I had no fun with the demo, suggests that it's a pretty good trailer.

[CoderGamesStrikesBack]

LOL, it's true, the trailer was released before I redesigned some areas and levels. The problem with the lack of action is that I didn't want to reveal strategies and tactics nor the special properties and abilities of different enemy types. Revealing those would simply take away the joy and fun of discovering new things and being surprised.

I'm a gamer too and I do not like to watch gameplay videos of games I'd like to experience myself. I like the unknown, discovery, surprises during actions, figuring on my own. I do watch trailers to see if it's something I'd like to play. Trailers should not reveal something player should discover, no no, I'm fully against that. That's the whole point of my game. It's up to player to figure out different types of enemies. The game gradually introduces them one-by-one and then enemies organize in groups of different types, using different tactics against you. Level 1 is just the simplest introduction. I want everyone to be able to finish the first level, completing the demo. The hell and sweating comes from the full game and only the bravest will venture forth. It's all about outsmarting enemies, this is not a classic mindless shmup.

[Quicksand-S]

I agree that revealing a lot destroys that feeling of discovery. If you don't reveal anything at all, though, then your game comes across as if it doesn't contain anything interesting or exciting. A good trailer needs to hint at something more, and a good demo needs to show that the developer had some cool ideas and implemented them well.

Level 1 doesn't show that. It doesn't show that the game is "about outsmarting enemies" or that "this is not a classic mindless shmup". It shows the opposite:

Step 1: Go left
Step 2: Shoot a bunch of times
Step 3: Go right to dodge a falling ship or enemy bullets
Step 4: Repeat from Step 1

That's my experience with the demo. I think it's pretty clear why it doesn't make me want to play more, or even to finish level 1. Despite your statement that the rest of the game is about outsmarting enemies, level 1 feels completely mindless. It's so mind-numbing that there is no way I would ever expect the full game to be any different, no matter how many levels or enemy types there are. Like I said, I can certainly understand not showing a ton, but I think it should at least hint at some of the action/variety that's in the full game.

Anyway, I've probably said all I can about this and it's all just personal opinion. Maybe someone else will give some feedback here soon.

[CoderGamesStrikesBack]

Well, some players seem to like the game, so we'll see. I don't expect everyone to like it though. Thank you for your constructive criticisms. If you got more, I'm always eager to listen.

[Quicksand-S]

Well, I gave it another shot. It seemed like I should see what that transition section you mentioned was like.

My impression? It's ten times better than the first level. Whereas the first level doesn't require any thought and isn't exciting in the slightest, the transition area required me to keep moving, always dodging things, predicting enemy paths and watching for powerups. It wasn't bad. The end of the level looked like it might be interesting too, and I like that you do hint at the game's variety a bit more than I thought.

That said, I would never have played through the mind-numbing initial waves to get to that point if I didn't already know there was more interesting stuff later. Maybe Level 1 could just have a few less enemies, so players can see the good parts sooner?

I do have a few new "issues". The achievement I get for clearing enemies in under 3min is really annoying. I get into the zone and I'm starting to get excited about the enemies having changed up their patterns and then...it stops me. It just throws me off completely, and it comes after the transition area has already begun. If it was just in-between, that wouldn't be as bad.

The only other "issue" I have is just that what the powerups do isn't always clear. The symbols on them don't always really look recognizable, and the green bullet one never seemed to do anything at all. Does it just give me back my default weapon or something?

[CoderGamesStrikesBack]

My impression? It's ten times better than the first level. Whereas the first level doesn't require any thought and isn't exciting in the slightest, the transition area required me to keep moving, always dodging things, predicting enemy paths and watching for powerups. It wasn't bad. The end of the level looked like it might be interesting too, and I like that you do hint at the game's variety a bit more than I thought.

That said, I would never have played through the mind-numbing initial waves to get to that point if I didn't already know there was more interesting stuff later. Maybe Level 1 could just have a few less enemies, so players can see the good parts sooner?

Glad you liked it. The reason for a long first level was to get the player acquainted with the basics and to hint that firing like crazy isn't always the best tactic. It will make sense later on. There are things I'd rather not reveal here, players should find our on their own. I want people to feel they're on an unknown enemy territory that requires some exploration, figuring some things out, when to think a bit, when to come up with a tactic, when it fails to come up with a better one, etc.

I do have a few new "issues". The achievement I get for clearing enemies in under 3min is really annoying. I get into the zone and I'm starting to get excited about the enemies having changed up their patterns and then...it stops me. It just throws me off completely, and it comes after the transition area has already begun. If it was just in-between, that wouldn't be as bad.

I feel for you, but once you achieve something it won't annoy you again, unless you change a profile or lose all the lives. They're not permanent per profile, but are permanent per game. And believe it or not, not everyone achieved it on the first level.

The only other "issue" I have is just that what the powerups do isn't always clear. The symbols on them don't always really look recognizable, and the green bullet one never seemed to do anything at all. Does it just give me back my default weapon or something?

Yes, it does return to the green laser, but this only has an effect if you collected some other laser-type power-up, like wide laser, for example. It's explained in the instructions.

I appreciate the extra time and effort you've put into playing some more, I'm trying to wrap it up and release the final version including the final boss, hopefully it will be released in a month or so, but I don't want to rush it and introduce more bugs into the game just when I managed to solve most serious ones.

[mhaweels]

This game is actually very impressive and original despite the Space Invaders theme. I love the fact that everything collides.

EDIT: Possibly the most awesome game I ever played!