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TIGSource ForumsCommunityTownhallBest game evar released!
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Edmund
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« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2009, 04:49:32 PM »

Alex's game is pretty stupid.

I agree. The cryptic sea guys are excellent at courting controversy. It seems to be one of their primary PR tactics, and while its not something I really agree with, it seems to have served them well, so I don't see any reason for them to stop.

how so?

I guess I was really just referring to C*nt, which upon reconsideration, wasn't actually a cryptic sea release. So rather than trying to debate that point, I'll let it go. I am just a very conflict-averse person, so I find the attack (which I guess is really just a parody, but due to its timing, is easily interpreted as an attack) on another indie developer disappointing. While I agree that, perhaps YHTBTR didn't deserve the award for innovation, in my mind it doesn't reflect well on you guys that this is how you deal with your game not being picked. Rather than complimenting the up and coming developers who really do deserve these awards you guys chose to pick on the one developer who's game isn't quite up to your standards.

YDHTBTR is as much of a joke then YHTBTR.. there was nothing mean or malicious about it, im almost positive that the guy who made YHTBTR would find it pretty amusing.. i know i did.

no ones attacking anyone, its all in good fun.. and from the responce here i assume most everyone else gets that.
 
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medieval
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« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2009, 06:09:44 AM »

Why does this have to be an attack on YHTBTR? I don't get it.
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Cymon
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« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2009, 08:36:16 AM »

I never liked burn the rope that much. Sure it's a satirical poke at the current trend in video games, but it had such low production values and was so blasted short that it was hardly a game. More of a digital toy. Heck, I think I spend more time checking out the credits than I did playing the game the first time because I expected something, ANYTHING more than that.

So I didn't like the game in the first place, but then there's the IGN nomination. Way to set the bar, guys. Practically just laid it on the ground. Why not just put a banner on your site that says "minimum spec = Viral". It's a wonder Super Obama World didn't get a nod too.
As someone who thinks YHTBTR is absolutely brilliant, I still don't understand the backlash against it.  I mean, if it's not your sense of humour then fine, but for me that was probably the funniest game I've ever played; it's literally had me on the floor a couple of times.  The simplicity isn't a problem, and given what the game was about I don't think the low-polish was much of a problem either (and guys, come on, there are piles of games with FAR lower polish than YHTBTR).  Really, I think YHTBTR is all about sense of humour and taste, and if you don't "get it," while enough other people do, then there's some natural bitterness there/"these guys are idiots for liking this."

So yeah, I think it totally deserves the innovation award because it does innovate; innovation in gaming really should look like something that's hardly "gaming as we know it," and I think YHTBTR qualifies as that.
Did you ever play the game PYST? If that game had gotten a nod for anything... I guess that experience kinda jaded my view of parody games. YHTBTR at least keeps it's commentary fairly deep.

But what really bothers me is the apparent amount of work that went into YHTBTR. If a game that thrown together can get critical acclaim simply because it's viral then IGF is on a slippery slope.
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« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2009, 11:18:13 AM »

I'm baffled as to how YHTBTR qualified as a finalist. I'm also utterly, completely nonplussed at how it was placed into the Innovation category. Parody is not innovation, it's imitation, which is pretty much the exact opposite of innovation. So, while I respect Kian for his work - yes, even Burn The Rope, since I did laugh when I first ran through it - I feel quite strongly that YHTBTR doesn't deserve this level of prestige.

As for Y*D*HTBTR... I'm not reading anything too malicious into it. If it really was supposed to be a serious jibe at Burn The Rope's nomination, well... honestly, so what? Not as if a great deal of production time went into it, after all. It was probably made in less time than it took for me to make this post...
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« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2009, 03:38:57 PM »

B-b-b-ut John Goodman was in PYST:




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Tom Sennett
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« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2009, 05:06:35 PM »

I don't understand why people are baffled about the choice of YHTBTR for innovation. It leverages a unique game design to convey a message of satire quite effectively.

Honestly, how many real bosses in your gaming career have you taken down by "burning the rope"? YHTBTR brings to my mind all the lazy game design crutches we seem to love to play over and over.

And keep in mind that most of YHTBTR's satire comes not from text, or graphics, or audio, but gameplay. It's a game doing satire the way only a game can. That's innovative!

And yeah, YDHTBTR just seems like sore losering.
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GregWS
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« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2009, 06:05:50 PM »

And keep in mind that most of YHTBTR's satire comes not from text, or graphics, or audio, but gameplay. It's a game doing satire the way only a game can. That's innovative!
This.  I can't think of any other example of satirical gameplay, so there's the innovation I couldn't quite put my finger on, but could feel was there.
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godsavant
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« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2009, 08:58:19 PM »

A joke is never as funny the second time around.

That said, after getting an initial laugh over the game's message, I thought YHTBTR was a piece of shit. The ending song was alright, and it was kind of fun to throw axes at the Colussus with full knowledge that you can't kill him, but still little more than a curio. Definitely not innovative, considering that 'innovation' means actually coming up with something that will set an example for future developers. At least, I hope it's not.

Portal was not easy. It took me and a whole squad of Asian mathletes to beat the game in under three hours.
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« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2009, 10:57:21 PM »

And keep in mind that most of YHTBTR's satire comes not from text, or graphics, or audio, but gameplay. It's a game doing satire the way only a game can. That's innovative!
This.  I can't think of any other example of satirical gameplay, so there's the innovation I couldn't quite put my finger on, but could feel was there.
You missed Barkley: Shut Up and Jam Gaiden: Chapter One of the Hoopz Barkley Saga?  You really need to give that one a try.  Does satirical gameplay lots better.
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« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2009, 11:58:24 PM »

Definitely not innovative, considering that 'innovation' means actually coming up with something that will set an example for future developers. At least, I hope it's not.

See, YHTBTR exaggerates what NOT to do in making a game. (I'm talking about the "burn the rope" mechanic here, not the length or simplicity.) That goes a long way towards establishing what TO do in making a game.
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« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2009, 01:10:28 AM »

As much as you can BS the reason YHTBTR is innovate, it's still a joke gone too far that took away from more deserving entries.

It's like giving an emmy to "Jizz in my Pants"
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« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2009, 08:03:47 AM »

It's like giving an emmy to "Jizz in my Pants"

This.
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Michelle Disraeli
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« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2009, 09:35:18 AM »

But did it really take away from more deserving entries?

I do think that there is a lot of unfounded elitism being shown by all quarters in objecting to the nomination. I just played the game again for the first time since it initially made the viral rounds, and I do believe that it does indeed deserve recognition.

The game is not just a 'joke', the level of polish it shows is actually extremely high.

After clicking to start, your character is shown dropping into the level. This establishes the importance of the character, and as players are expecting a character, they then associate this character with the one they are to control.

The artwork used on the tileset is simple, but it is very well drawn, and creates a consistent feel. The simple addition of shadow creates an illusion of depth, and when combined with the player character, helps the player understand that this is a sidescrolling game, rather than say, a freescrolling game upon a map viewed from above.

They take a novel approach to a title screen. It is not displayed upon loading the game, but rather once you have entered the game. Notice how this polish mirrors the techniques often used in the film industry. Opening credits are also displayed at this stage, in a non-disruptive manner (they don't obscure the action, and do not stop the action).

One failing of the game is that it does not immediately tell you the controls, you are assumed to be familiar with the standard keyboard settings for games. Interestingly, however, trying WASD will teach you the throw axe command, and also direct you to the arrow keys. WASD tends to be the preserve of less casual gamers, and as such they are likely to take more notice of the axe action.

Music does not start until you begin moving. This hints at a sensible design concept - a paused-until-playing start to a level. The background music is again of a good quality, and helps to set the theme. The ominous nature alerts you to a struggle ahead, and the undertone of the strings hints at exploration.

As you move along the tunnel, tutorial information is given. The first message "there is a boss at the end of this tunnel" sets the scene well. Note how no information is given about the length of the tunnel, or what to expect from the tunnel itself. An easy to read font is used.

The second message "you can't hurt him with your weapons" will cause different reactions in the 'hardcore' and 'casual' players. If you immediately found the axe action, you will expect instead that you will have other uses for the axe. If you immediately used the cursor keys, however, this line hints that there is in fact a weapon, and players are likely to experiment to find one.

At this point, the tunnel turns upwards, indicating that some method of vertical travel is possible. This teaches you to jump, the most essential action in the whole game, and crucial to being able to complete it. Shortly after there is a drop downwards, which further reinforces the information from the start of the level (that there is gravity - you can fall, and falling does not do any damage). Although you may think this obvious from the start, many games over the years have had mechanics such that the entry to the level teaches you something which is patently false when actually playing the game.

At this point, progress forward along the tunnel is helped by the positioning of the third line of text, being just at the edge of the screen. Advancing to view this, you discover "To kill him you have to burn the rope above", which tells you that you will need to climb upwards somehow when facing the boss. At this point, the player is also introduced to a new mechanic - burning - which they do not have any more information about at this time.

The subsequent drop is higher than you can jump. This helps reinforce the sense of progression, and prevents the player getting stuck going back and forth over the same opening section. The next message is a simple "Have fun!", which establishes that this is an enjoyable, rather than challenging game. It helps reduce frustration when faced with the boss that is difficult to kill.

At the end of the tunnel, you come to a large room. The prior mention of "at the end of the tunnel" helps the player the realise that this room will likely contain the boss. This is instantly reinforced upon entering the room by the door behind shutting, a boss health meter appearing, and new music starting. The music is again fairly well polished, the base line giving a little tension, but the main theme being positive, empowering the player. At this point, we also see two new features, a window and the torches on the wall. The windows add further to the polish, fitting in with the tileset and breaking up the monotony of the rear wall. The torches are also visually fitting, and players are likely to be curious about them, given the earlier comment about 'burning'. However, they are also likely to assume that, given the window's apparent background status, the torches are background decoration.

The boss name itself helps - "grinning colossus". 'Grinning' is a positive action that typically we humans find a happy thing, however it is also associated with madmen. 'Colossus', on the other hand, is an imposing and fearful word.

On encountering the boss itself, it shoots at you through its eyes. The reactions upon your character being hit by these indicate to the player that being hit is bad. Interestingly, there is no actual game mechanics issue with being hit, however players are likely to want to avoid this. Similar reactions are in place when you hit the boss. The black colour of the boss is a traditionally fearful one, and the simple art style used not only continues to fit appropriately with the world, but also is a little comical, helping the player to enjoy the experience, rather than to feel that this is purely a dangerous challenge. When you throw an axe at the boss, an impact sound is played, indicating that it does hit the boss. The health bar (and its lack of response) helps reinforce that axes do nothing.

If you climb up the platforms in the middle, you are shown that the windows are background pieces only, and find the chandelier and associated rope. You discover that these are background pieces, and that you cannot stand on the chandelier. The need to deal with the boss is reinforced by the symmetry of the room, and the lack of any apparent escape route.

Using your jump atom of knowledge, you proceed up one of the segments at the side. It is difficult to avoid the torches, but this is possible. Complete exploration shows you that no other items exist in the arena, and so you are likely to then try hitting a torch (avoidance is likely if a player is an experienced gamer, since torches have in some games been items that harm you).

On hitting a torch, you gain a flame on a stick. This flame does not last forever - you have to reach the rope within a certain period of time. Jumping whilst holding the flame shows you that jumping will not put it out, making your possible routes to the rope suddenly open up (since you might know that you need to jump to reach it).

Hitting the rope causes the rope to burn, and the chandelier to fall. There is perhaps another aspect of parody here - the boss can be lured away from the centre, but when the chandelier falls, he moves back - forced defeatablity due to bad design Tongue The death animation again fits, they have smoke sprites in use, and sound effects. The boss's health bar falls, further reinforcing that you did it right.

The song at the end, and the ending video are again very well polished. The song does break the 4th wall, making this in some respects more of a meta-game. The line "but how are you going to spend the rest of this da-ay" is quite telling and appropriate, I felt. The song helps the player feel like they accomplished something, and it also works to 'wake' them from the experience.

This would have likely gone viral without all the polish. Plainer graphics, no axe action, no sound effects, an even simpler environmentally-defeated boss, and a far worse song at the end would have all worked just fine to make this viral.

What the nomination of this game shows is that to be nominated, games do not have to be long, or feature massive amounts of fancy content. What matters is quality gameplay (which this actually does have) and a good level of polish.

When I look at some the games it is against, I simply cannot understand the fuss that is being made over this nomination. The Graveyard is another game in the category, and that is simply about walking forward and sitting down (and if you pay, you get the chance at dying!). And some highly innovative games have still gone forward.
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Alex May
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« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2009, 09:46:44 AM »

I'm all for taking the piss out of YHTBTR, but that's beyond the pale.
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fish
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« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2009, 11:35:32 AM »

i was hoping this was malicious.
in fact, i assumed it was.
it made it funnier.

we thought it hilarious.
(the polytron we)
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Glaiel-Gamer
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« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2009, 11:40:13 AM »

Ok nice walkthrough, but what did it bring to the table that was new?
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fish
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« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2009, 11:42:28 AM »

wait, seriously, how is this not a great big fuck you to mazapan?

it's kinda weird to me that you guys would release something as crude as this and then go around saying its all in good fun?

seems weak.

if you're gonna make a shitty little riff on another game that ends with FUCK OFF, you should admit to and embrace your pissed-offedness.

i thought it was pretty punk.
angry.
but now...

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Cymon
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« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2009, 12:00:45 PM »

On an unrelated note, because I'm tired of talking about the subject at hand, did anyone make a FAQ for YHTBTR?
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« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2009, 12:50:16 PM »

I didn't find this little cynical "joke" funny at all.
I also can't understand why everybody are so silly about YHTBTR winning the award.
*mumble* My game should totally have got that 5.th spot */mumble*. WTF
Don't hate, love!
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Edmund
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« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2009, 01:34:35 PM »

wait, seriously, how is this not a great big fuck you to mazapan?

it's kinda weird to me that you guys would release something as crude as this and then go around saying its all in good fun?

seems weak.

if you're gonna make a shitty little riff on another game that ends with FUCK OFF, you should admit to and embrace your pissed-offedness.

i thought it was pretty punk.
angry.
but now...



I didnt make it.. i just posted about it because i thought it was funny.

honestly i cant speak for alex, but i was just assuming it was all in good fun because i never heard him say "THIS WILL LEARN THAT DESIGNER GOOD!! HAW HAW HAW!!.

basicly alex just said hes going to make the greatest most innovative work of art ever and then 10 min later sent me that build...
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