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[gimymblert]

Quiet support is not what you want in this situation, it's call being coward, ie not wanting to face consequences.

[MrBones]

Quiet support is not what you want in this situation, it's call being coward, ie not wanting to face consequences.

Unfortunately, I don't think that's always true. There's a difference between being a coward and staying out of a mess (especially if it doesn't directly involve you), although it's a thin line.

[Tazi]

She shouldn't have supported Zoe, because what she did is contradictionary to her views. But at that point I don't actually think it changed much, it was already exploded.
The one person who should have really stayed silent instead was Phil Fish. He had like a million haters on his Twitter, you can imagine.

The other thing that should have been different is the censor in all the news sites, that was actually what made the whole thing so big. You wanna know why the Yogscast stuff never turned that big as this one? Because they didn't tried to suppress that one with all possible force. (btw, I hope someone will sue the crap out of them.)

[gimymblert]

You are out Tazi! 

[Tazi]

 

[gimymblert]

It's not debating it is witch hunt, so out : P

Also GOdwyn point

When there's a Pogrom on, you don't stop the Jews fleeing for their lives in the middle of the street and say "Hey now, you seem like fine folks but I'd like to debate with you about the finer points of the Unitarian concept of deity in which I believe you are mistaken..."

No. You stand up for them against the angry mob, or let them hide in your basement. Like a decent person.

(And in case you think the metaphor is strained, may I remind you that Anita has quite literally been driven from her home in fear for her life).

http://gamasutra.com/view/news/224400/Gamers_dont_have_to_be_your_audience_Gamers_are_over.php#comment250150

[Tazi]

It's not debating it is witch hunt, so out : P

Sorry, I'll get you all the sources together to back my posts, but right now I just can't force myself to look trought 40+ pages of forum posts for tweets and stuff. I will do later, tho.

[Tuba]

To be honest I still think there's others who have better views of how to deal with these matters in gaming, but it's not something I really want to argue about.

The problem here is, after seeing what is happening to Anita, who has the courage to talk about this stuff?

[gimymblert]

Also the problem is that some lazy "sjw" don't do research, I always engulf three thousang google page before forming an opinion, But I'm seeing a lot of good intention backfiring in this case, which feed the too happy mra who get after the fact "proof", encyclopediadramatica is full of jumping to conclusion that are nonsenses.

EDIT:
Also it's funny all of this is about mra using feminist rhetorics and trying to predate feminist ideals (even in a fucked up way, see "porn")

[Tazi]

http://www.thefineyoungcapitalists.com/PeaceTreaty

[MrBones]

encyclopediadramatica is full of jumping to conclusion that are nonsenses.

ED isn't supposed to be taken seriously at all though, so I'm not sure why you're trying to find actual conclusions on it.

The problem here is, after seeing what is happening to Anita, who has the courage to talk about this stuff?

you'd be surprised. I think the problem isn't the subject itself, but how you present it.

[s0]

you'd be surprised. I think the problem isn't the subject itself, but how you present it.

yeah because its not like gamers get super angry/defensive at even the slightest hint of anything related to feminism. not like they have created an atmosphere where some ppl are already afraid to speak out. not like the community manager for mighty no 9 drew an angry internet mob just for 1. being a woman and 2. identifying as a feminist. the only way this is ever going to work out is if the vocal majority of male gamerz stop being gigantic babbys which doesnt seem likely to happen anytime soon.

[gimymblert]

encyclopediadramatica is full of jumping to conclusion that are nonsenses.

ED isn't supposed to be taken seriously at all though, so I'm not sure why you're trying to find actual conclusions on it.

The problem here is, after seeing what is happening to Anita, who has the courage to talk about this stuff?

you'd be surprised. I think the problem isn't the subject itself, but how you present it.

I'm talking about the forums, they document the "evil" side of the problem
but also zoe seems to polarized mra FOR feminism by branding her fake feminist. While it's kind of a twisted version of feminism (vivian james) it's still a step up from plain MRA ... They made this to celebrate real "talented" women "who care about games" in the industry over "fake feminist" like anita and zoe who want to destroy it:



And they spread this everywhere they can, which is the definition of irony at best because they would be unaware if not for the kind of anita and co! (and they make a list going bigger).

It cognitive dissonance at best! They have internalize the criticism but can't turn back, soà they have an excuse to enact in the direction of the critics while rejecting the origin of the critics, aka eat the cake and have it too.

The problem is that they are still defending a narrow definition of gaming but hey!

I also follow other generic forums more balance who spend time calmly discussing technical aspact like the supposedly fake Phil fish attack, in which there is no conclusion as the proof is not really one and the supposedly double check have been used in the past in a wow's player cases and other.


edit:
Twisted feminism aka men telling which women are WORTH being in teh industry! aka misogny in disguise

[Sik]

The only thing I really don't generally agree with Anita on is her view on trolls. I understand what she's getting at with all the harassment and stuff online and I can kinda agree with her policy on that (i.e Disabling Comments), but if I took every threat someone sent me online as a real life personal threat, I'd be rolling down to the police every other day.

Normally she seems to just ignore them, but from what I gather this time the guy doing the threat actually had personal information on her family, and threatened to attack her parents. Sure, may be just a troll, but the fact that person went as far as bothering to look for that stuff means it's probably better to be prudent (just in case it's actually a serious threat). I'd rather have the cops waste time on a false alarm than risking getting hurt over a real one.

[gimymblert]

[Tuba]

And they spread this everywhere they can, which is the definition of irony at best because they would be unaware if not for the kind of anita and co! (and they make a list going bigger).

It cognitive dissonance at best! They have internalize the criticism but can't turn back, soà they have an excuse to enact in the direction of the critics while rejecting the origin of the critics, aka eat the cake and have it too.

The problem is that they are still defending a narrow definition of gaming but hey!

I also follow other generic forums more balance who spend time calmly discussing technical aspact like the supposedly fake Phil fish attack, in which there is no conclusion as the proof is not really one and the supposedly double check have been used in the past in a wow's player cases and other.


edit:
Twisted feminism aka men telling which women are WORTH being in teh industry! aka misogny in disguise

That's so bizarre. I like that image, they did a nice research there. A lot of talented women that no one knows about. But it's made for all the wrong reasons, it's like 4chan is trying to prove that they are more feminists than the feminists... I'm confused 

[gimymblert]

If it's the case we need more "extremist feminism" to move into even more "moderate" area that are actually friendly to women ...

[gimymblert]

remember


edit: good discussion about the merit of anita from multiple angle at neogaf
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=881969&page=35

[Boreal]

you'd be surprised. I think the problem isn't the subject itself, but how you present it.

yeah because its not like gamers get super angry/defensive at even the slightest hint of anything related to feminism. not like they have created an atmosphere where some ppl are already afraid to speak out. not like the community manager for mighty no 9 drew an angry internet mob just for 1. being a woman and 2. identifying as a feminist. the only way this is ever going to work out is if the vocal majority of male gamerz stop being gigantic babbys which doesnt seem likely to happen anytime soon.

Why is it that every criticism directed against a woman (this applies in the Zoe Quinn debacle as well) is immediately discarded by the fedora defense force as misogyny?  She was bashed because she had no skills, got the job through sheer connections, had never played fucking Megaman, and was pushing an agenda on top of all that.

[Blambo]

:I

the point is that the accusations are really baseless yet disproportionately emphasized. its not the accusations themselves but the magnitude, direction, and proliferation of them.

also at the same time a lot of the accusations themselves are just grossly misogynistic