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[jolene]

hey dude, it's ok that you don't like "gone home" but going through enormous lengths to hate it by saying willfully ignorant things like coming out isn't a problem for LGBT people (first world and third world) is disgusting.

That's a really shitty thing to say and it's reaching pretty hard. I'm saying that if you're gonna change people's minds, do it right and not sit on the internet yelling in a fucking echobox. Go out and do shit for your community and people around you.

http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5272;sa=showPosts

[jolene]

I also like how you're taking very minor things that went with one word mentions and using them to frame your entire counter-argument by the way.

I too like how I am taking the literal things you said and making you address their meaning

[Capntastic]

I'm a cool calm rational games enthusiast, and I will say a game sucks because it doesn't solve world problems, say those world problems aren't even a big deal, then swiftly move to asserting that no game can possibly change anyone's mind and that we shouldn't sweat it because games are for relaxing, but that the original game I was talking about still sucks.  Nice Arguing, Dude, Strawmanning Me.  Heh.

[Colon Semicolon]

I also like how you're taking very minor things that went with one word mentions and using them to frame your entire counter-argument by the way.

I too like how I am taking the literal things you said and making you address their meaning

I mentioned Cuba. I also mentioned alot of countries with notorius issues with human rights violations and mortality rates. congratulations on missing the point to further a strawman!
I am an artist, and I understand the want to convey a message with things, but they are often misconstrued or simply not taken at all. Do you think Andy Warhol was happy that the majority of people didn't get that he was making a mockery of modern art and even of himself? Even now, most people just don't care what the man actually said in interviews or did publically. They just know him as a hack who did the picture of the soup cans.
All that seems to be coming from this is that people REALLY don't wanna go out and actually do something in a tested and proven way, IE going out, communicating together with people in your community, and try to raise awareness about a situation. It worked for the actual feminism movement, and it worked when dealing with segregation. The LGBT crowd here in the south has made major strides due to doing that very thing!
I see all this as time wasted on people who won't care, and all it's really done is put the industry in an even worse light than it already was.

[Capntastic]

Looks like someone's getting a bit hot under the collar, a bit steamed, a bit salty and mad, since I'm just stating my point about "Why this artform is super important but why games with messages are pointless since human rights atrocities in China exist and I really care about that haha", here on The Indie Game Forum, where people talk about games by indies.  Looks like someone needs a chill pill.  Can't believe you'd try to frame my argument as childish and ignorant.  Just realtalkin'.

[Capntastic]

Not only does playing Gone Home mean you're not changing hearts and minds out in the real world in Cuba, but it actively prevents you from doing so.

[Colon Semicolon]

[Capntastic]

That still doesn't make your original assertions good arguments though, nor does it retroactively make anyone think you were ever arguing in good faith about Gone Home's merits

[Capntastic]

Here we go, the playbook for "how to win an argument", I can't lose.

[Capntastic]

Gone Home isn't donating like, any of its money to groundwater poison relief in China so like, it's not actually addressing any important issues, so it's basically artistically barren and not even worth playing.  Now, normal games like Final Fantasy and Tekken, those are ethical and worthwhile because they have the good sense to not even worry about world hunger or child soldiers or whatever makes me seem the most empathetic to some third world kid

[jolene]

I also like how you're taking very minor things that went with one word mentions and using them to frame your entire counter-argument by the way.

I too like how I am taking the literal things you said and making you address their meaning

I mentioned Cuba. I also mentioned alot of countries with notorius issues with human rights violations and mortality rates. congratulations on missing the point to further a strawman!
I am an artist, and I understand the want to convey a message with things, but they are often misconstrued or simply not taken at all. Do you think Andy Warhol was happy that the majority of people didn't get that he was making a mockery of modern art and even of himself? Even now, most people just don't care what the man actually said in interviews or did publically. They just know him as a hack who did the picture of the soup cans.
All that seems to be coming from this is that people REALLY don't wanna go out and actually do something in a tested and proven way, IE going out, communicating together with people in your community, and try to raise awareness about a situation. It worked for the actual feminism movement, and it worked when dealing with segregation. The LGBT crowd here in the south has made major strides due to doing that very thing!
I see all this as time wasted on people who won't care, and all it's really done is put the industry in an even worse light than it already was.

of course, art is ineffective compared to other forms of activism, but at the end of the day artists are going to do it through what they do and if what they do touches a few people and if there are more of these games coming out you'll see accumulative effects.

a simple thing like representation in art can make someone feel less alone. best case scenario: gone home will help some parent empathize with the lesbian character in the game and better understand when their own kid comes out. worst case scenario: maybe it won't and maybe it'll be a game that humans spent time and resources creating yet another cultural waste, but consumers are used to that by now.

i don't understand how this game put the industry in a worse light. is it because gone home isn't a video game? yes, and? is it because you think LGBT people don't have trouble anymore, despite living proof worldwide, and so you think this game addresses a non-issue? if it's a non-issue, what's your fucking deal?

[Capntastic]

If his entire premise for criticizing it wasn't based on "it doesn't meet completely arbitrary criteria I made up for it and would never hold any ~normal~ game to" I'd be more willing to engage in an actual discussion even though that's much less fun, for me.

[jolene]

yeah anyway colon semicolon

don't be such a "professional victim" about getting called a misogynist by journalists because you self identify as a "gamer" and "sit on the internet yelling in a fucking echobox" all day about some silverstring conspiracy and how LGBT activists need to bootstrap or some shit when they have been for years and years and still continue to do so. and you don't actually care about activism, all you literally care about in your sad pathetic life is you want your gaming "personalities" to stop giving glowing reviews to a game you don't like. maybe you just need to shut the fuck up!

[BarchKing]

it begins

[joseph ¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

i thought gone home was a good game

like, mechanically.

looking is a good mechanic, and its one of the best explorations of that ever made.

i wish the budget/scope had been high for intractables.

[Leon Fook]

it begins

Wouldn't last long.

[starsrift]

Games are about presenting a challenge to accomplish, and Gone Home doesn't seem to get that because the only challenge is whether you'll fall asleep before it presents you some deep meaningful message about LESBIANS (I swear to god why is that an issue. Half our family friends' kids have come out and nobody gives a shit, we just go 'oh, okay, that's what they wanna do!' and then not really talk about it further BECAUSE IT'S NOT AN ISSUE.)

Nobody's saying you have to enjoy Gone Home. Everyone has different tastes. It is, however, a beautiful work of an evolving, maturing industry.
But games are not about presenting a challenge. I don't necessarily agree with Koster's theory, but at least he's a hell of a lot closer to the mark on what games are than you are - which is way the fuck out in la-la land.

[BarchKing]

what genre would you classify gone home as?

[Tuba]

I see that some serious talking is going on here

[joseph ¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

what genre would you classify gone home as?

Adventure game. First person shooter.