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[gunswordfist]

lucky man. i wish i still had my cousin's 64.

[SirNiko]

There was a second Goemon game for the 64 that was a stage-based platformer like the SNES titles. It was actually more of a collectathon, since you had to collect passes to access the castle level on each world map, which were awarded for beating levels or doing sidequests.

I thought it was pretty excellent, though it's not like Mario 64 at all.

I'll always remember DMA for Lemmings, not GTA.

Getting back on the topic of Mario 64-likes, there's a devlog for one called Spooky Poo's Happy Hell, that offers as a major twist that most of the possible moves (many of which are modeled directly after Mario 64, like the side jump and triple jump) are offered as optional upgrades. It's got a playable demo available and looks like it could be pretty good. The dev intends to have Mario 64 / Banjo Kazooie style collectables you use to advance between worlds, though that's not yet reflected in the demo.

http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=45038.0

[gunswordfist]

i saw that there was at least one other 64 goemon listed someone. thanks for the info

[gunswordfist]

i've been thinking, based off of what little i have played of mario 64, i think the game is more goal-based than it is a collect-a-thon. unless i am mistaken, other collect-a-thons are like "walk and jump around in one area until you get 100 bananas and then you can advance". in mario 64, from what i have seen, you complete an objective, like say beat a boss, and then you receive a star, more often than you find and get a star that's sitting/hidden in a level. that's why i said toy story 2 is a sm64-like, because you also have big levels where you have to complete a number of goals to get to a new level.

[Tanner]

i've been thinking, based off of what little i have played of mario 64, i think the game is more goal-based than it is a collect-a-thon.

yes

[s0]

the only collectathon thing about mario 64 are the 100 coin stars. honestly not even banjo tooie is that much of a collectathon, or (what i remember of) conker for that matter. banjo kazooie and dk64 are the only collecathons.

[gunswordfist]

interesting. people made it seem like every 64 platformer is a collect-a-thon.

[gimymblert]

the only collectathon thing about mario 64 are the 100 coin stars. honestly not even banjo tooie is that much of a collectathon, or (what i remember of) conker for that matter. banjo kazooie and dk64 are the only collecathons.

heu, nop star, red coin and coin.

While some star are straightforward, they are still behind cryptic hint. It's no different that banjo kazooie (aka jinjo, note and puzzle piece), it's as much a collecthon than the other rare games. The only innovation of banjo is to make sure you don't restart a level after each puzzle piecve and that the hint is that there is none, you find a challenge there is your hint. I mean A big huge ape on top of a coconut tree that send you projectile, you don't need a hint to knock him down.

the main difference is control

[s0]

dum collectathon = shit like the notes in banjo kazooie

[joseph ¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

Yeah mario 64 doesn't have anything that you'd conventionally call a 'collectible' (persistent objects you can pick up many of in a level and carry throughout the rest of the game), let alone the multiple items you can collect ala banjo and other collectathons. Stars are just a way to count how many missions you've beaten, the mechanic would be the same if there was no physical object mario picked up.

They have multiple worlds and gating worlds off in common, but otherwise different structures.

[gimymblert]

 I don't agree at all, you need those coins to 100%

[gunswordfist]

yeah, that's what i remember, the game being more about completing tasks in stages than the collecting of stars. thanks.

[gimymblert]

BTW 100 coin = one puzzle piece, 7 jinjo = one puzzle piece
100 mario coin = 1 star, 8 red coin = 1 star

star and puzzle piece are the main currency for progression

Cap switch = banjo power ups, they both gate

block + time = Mario power currency
egg + feather = banjo power currency

The main difference is that banjo allow a better pacing or the use of currency while the currency is embedded in the challenge in mario, you can't improvise with them for another challenge.

Banjo is more complex in that it build and perfect the mario progression.

[s0]

star and puzzle piece are the main currency for progression

thats wrong, notes are much more important late game in banjo kazooie (not tooie). you have to collect almost every note in the game to even finish it (that's why i stopped).

also the jiggies in BK are pretty different and much worse in their placement than in mario 64. in mario every star is tied to a concrete challenge, in BK some of the jiggies are literally just lying around.

tooie did it much much better and also made collecting trinkets secondary. i never had any problems getting enough notes to learn all the moves (so far, still not finished).

[SirNiko]

I would argue the stars enough were evidence of a collectathon. The central mechanic of the game is still collecting a bunch of objects of equal value to buy your way into later levels.

A few of the Mario 64 stars are tied to meaningless hidden challenges, like the star for stomping Chain Chomp's post in the battlefield level, the one hidden in the corner of Whomp's fortress, or touching the five hidden points in Tiny-Big Island (which takes literally seconds to do). Others were only trivially different, like the stars in Tick Tock Clock and Tall Tall Mountain that had you navigate the same obstacle course for each with only a slightly different path at the end. Tall Tall Mountain is the worst example, since the first two stars are both at the top of the mountain, and the only difference is that one has a minor 'puzzle' where you catch a monkey.

Later games took the genre to greater extremes, but Mario 64 still had the hallmarks of a collectathon in the collection of the stars.

[gimymblert]

Sirniko got it, it has the template, other have the scale and complication iterate on that template ... it's very different from a typical mario game for example, it's never find this but go to the exit using obvious path (to the right) with occasional maze and labyrinth.

[s0]

a collectathon isnt just a game that has collectibles. it's a game that consists of scouring levels for a large number of trinkets ("collectathon" = "collection marathon"). the first collectathon is probably jet set willy. the notes in banjo kazooie are a collectathon, the 100 coin stars in mario 64 are a collectathon, the 10000 different types of bananas in dk64 are a collectathon.

by u guys' definition, every single nonlinear game that involves some sort of backtracking is a collectathon

[SirNiko]

How is Jet Set Willy different from Mario 64? Both have a single kind of trinket to collect (Stars versus the various but functionally identical objects in JSW) and your progress is determined by how many you have (Willy lets you win if you have them all, whereas Mario has a number of progressive gates).

All DK and Banjo did was subdivide the collectables into more categories, with some of them restricted to per-level hunts (bananas in DK to open boss rooms, notes in Banjo to access levels/moves) and progress gates that check more than one type of collectable. The concept is still the same - progression in the game is determined singularly by how many of those collectables you've got, not by a predetermined series of challenges like most games.

What game with backtracking do you think qualifies as a collectathon under this definition that shouldn't?

[gimymblert]

should zelda be consider a collecthon is a more interesting question, it's obvious mario 64 started the trend in 3D platformer despite and being obviously the lighter one. What about level base game like bomb jack?

[s0]

All DK and Banjo did was subdivide the collectables into more categories, with some of them restricted to per-level hunts (bananas in DK to open boss rooms, notes in Banjo to access levels/moves) and progress gates that check more than one type of collectable. The concept is still the same - progression in the game is determined singularly by how many of those collectables you've got, not by a predetermined series of challenges like most games.

but thats the only difference, that the order of challenges isnt predetermined. is megaman a collectathon because u get to choose stages? is unreal tournament a collectathon because you "collect" frags?

What game with backtracking do you think qualifies as a collectathon under this definition that shouldn't?

metroid? la mulana? dark souls?

should zelda be consider a collecthon is a more interesting question, it's obvious mario 64 started the trend in 3D platformer despite and being obviously the lighter one. What about level base game like bomb jack?

no. zelda isnt even really nonlinear (outside of zelda 1, 2 and link between worlds)

again a collectathon is a game that consists of scouring levels for numerous items. the "challenge" in a collectathon is in exploring the entire level and picking up all the items. the collection is not explicitly tied into specific tasks you have to complete (as in you free chain chomp and you get a star for it, you beat a boss and you get a star for it etc). its the difference between just grinding for loot and doing quests in a rpg basically.