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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperDesignHow to design levels for oldschool, 16bit platformers?
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darkhog
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« on: October 07, 2014, 08:22:37 AM »

I'm going after feel of platformers of the past, think Jazz Jackrabbit, Sonic, etc. But don't know how to design levels for games like that so they'll feel good. Any tips?
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« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2014, 08:42:27 AM »

Use / create a environment where you can edit your levels while you're playing your game. That way your feedback cycle is quickest which allows you to make the greatest amount of design decisions / refinements in whatever time you have available.

Concerning level design for such games itself, it's all about (s)pacing and setting up interesting combinations of the various elements / mechanics you have at your disposal.
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« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2014, 11:31:15 AM »

I think this explains Sonic's level design quite well:
http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=28302

You're not under the same constraints but it should give you a nice idea of what to take into account.
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darkhog
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« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2014, 05:25:25 AM »

Thank you for this fine link, good sir Gentleman.

I wonder if there is similar article about level design for run'n'gun platformers such as Jazz Jackrabbit. Will do some googling later on.
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« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2014, 10:48:39 AM »

Some further reading:

http://phoffstein.wordpress.com/essays/platformer-level-design/
http://devmag.org.za/2011/07/04/how-to-design-levels-for-a-platformer/
http://www.significant-bits.com/super-mario-bros-3-level-design-lessons

One thing that comes to mind about alternate paths is that Mario levels often had paths that were dependent on your Mario-state (small, big, raccoon, etc.).  Sometimes they're alternate routes through the level, sometimes they led to a powerup you'd need to experience another path (like a path accessible to small Mario that gives him an embiggening mushroom so he can experience a later set-piece at the right size).  One of those links above -- maybe the 2nd -- links to an Anna Anthropy post where she gives a good example of this.

If your character changes state at all (which is probably true in a run & gun) consider designing levels where the optimal path differs based on (for example) what weapon you're using.
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darkhog
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« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2014, 11:12:02 AM »

Good idea, although my game is in style of hits such as Sonic, Jazz Jackrabbit or Ripple dot zero (cool platformer in style I'm going for starring penguins).

Mario has completely different kind of gameplay, although I admit some lessons can be learned here as well.
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« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2014, 03:53:35 PM »

I think this explains Sonic's level design quite well:
http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=28302

You're not under the same constraints but it should give you a nice idea of what to take into account.

gonna just say thank you for this link; some great stuff here
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darkhog
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« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2014, 11:44:14 AM »

Sure it is. Though I wish there would be more of it. My game's gameplay is more like Jazz Jackrabbit than Sonic, although this helps as JJ level design was kinda based on Sonic, so things about e.g. loop-de-loops or anything related to walking on walls/ceiling is basically useless to me.

Will ask about it on Jazz2Online as well as probably due to large amount of level makers there I'll be able to get more info related to good design for game like that.

In the mean time if you have another links like that sonic one (general platformer level design is meaningful here for two reasons: 1) I already know this stuff, done many platformers in the past in TGF that was on CD in one of Polish computer magazines in late 90s 2) I'm not making Mario here).
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« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2014, 10:02:42 PM »

There are also several papers you might want to read.
Procedural Level Design for Platform Games - Kate Compton and Michael Mateas
A Framework for Analysis of 2D Platformer Levels - Gillian Smith, Mee Cha, Jim Whitehead
Rhythm-Based Level Generation for 2D Platformers - Gillian Smith, Mee Cha, Jim Whitehead
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darkhog
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« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2014, 02:43:06 PM »

Thank you. However those refers to procedural generation and I want to make good, handcrafted levels.
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« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2014, 08:44:08 PM »

I, on the other hand? Would LOVE that stuff, because it's right up my alley.
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« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2014, 11:52:04 PM »

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« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2014, 12:01:16 AM »

Just watch loads of rube goldberg machines and see what comes of it.

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darkhog
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« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2014, 03:49:21 PM »

Just watch loads of rube goldberg machines and see what comes of it.

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I'm not sure what are you getting at. I know what Rube Goldberg machine is, just I don't know what it has to do with design for the games like Sonic or Jazz Jackrabbit.
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« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2014, 05:41:31 PM »

TBH, I have no time for games (even though I spend all my spare time working on one!) - as such, I take all my cues from the real world, I know if I was to try and deconstruct Sonic and figure out what makes the gamefeel different to say Mario I reckon a Rube Goldberg machine would be just the thing. Why? Because when watching a single game (Sonic) you have no reference point, it's ALL Sonic, however, you know how that feels, so by watching an RBmachine you should be able to observe the segments that feel similar, but this time I have a much better reference point, the chaos of the rest of the machine!
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darkhog
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« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2014, 08:32:38 AM »

Thank you. However I don't think I have time to watch Rube Goldberg machines to see similarities. Anyone know any fun games with level design similar to 2D sonics/Jazz Jackrabbit/Ripple Dot Zero?

I think that comparing what games with similar level design and concepts have in common would give me a better understanding what make them fun that comparing with abstract, unrelated thing (R.G. machines).

So anyone knows such games?
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« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2014, 04:57:00 PM »

http://www.vgmaps.com/

VGMaps contains ripped maps from a huge variety of games. You might be inspired by looking at them. Jazz Jackrabbit doesn't appear on the list, though.
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baconman
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« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2014, 02:44:57 AM »

Freedom Planet and Shovel Knight, here you come.


REAL TALK: Come up with one or two, simple, core experiences that the player can DO, and revolve your flow around that. With Sonic, it's about momentum/control, and rolling/spindashing. So the devices in the games are set to revolve around that - you run on the top things in Marble Garden Zone to keep them floating. You spindash the switches in the level to make platforms appear.

Metroid is about shooting things, rolling up in a ball, and dropping bombs. Everything in every Metroid revolves around these. Scrooge McDuck in DuckTales can golf club or pogo stick with his cane, and everything in the game revolves around that.

Ask yourself: What kind of EXPERIENCE do you want the player to take from your game, and build on THAT.
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darkhog
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« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2014, 07:26:44 PM »

The problem is that moveset is not yet finalized, all I know for now is that it will be run'n'gun.
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« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2016, 06:36:43 AM »

This is also a great resource from the minds behind Super Mario World on The Game Design Forum:

http://thegamedesignforum.com/features/RD_SMW_1.html
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