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[Captain_404]

I've seen a few topics on indie flash here recently and it's inspired me to post a game I'm working on.

http://ian.janasnyder.com/BWproto.htm



Right now, there's not actually anything you can do, it's a mostly atmospheric demo. If the music sounds familiar to anyone, that's because it is. It will remain only until I write some music that fits the game. I just did this because it was quick and easy, although it's still not exactly at the sort of emotion I'm aiming for.

Anyway, I really have no idea where to go with this, and I'd be interested to hear anyone's thoughts on it. I'm really not sure where to go objective-wise. I certainly want to stay away from conventional gameplay excuses for a zen environment (ie: collect these, avoid these), the visual style is striking, the gameplay should be just as much so.

[increpare]

that feels really fishy!

(there are some problems with the graphic when you double back, but other than that I think the movement is fantastic)

looks good also

[nanotie]

  
It's so beautiful !
Really great feelings while moving around !

I would love to interract with an other fish.
He could be a bit affraid of me and would'nt let me come close.
Maybe something involving slowly changing the color of my fish could let me come closer and go on with him.
Just the first thing that came through my mind.

[LaserBeing]

This is really nice looking. My only issue (aside from the doubling back weirdness that increpare mentioned) is that the fish doesn't really move like a fish, it just sort of zooms forward like a jet. If you could add some tail movement it would look much more natural.

As for gameplay, this is just off the top of my head but maybe you could have some sort of mechanic involving ripple dynamics? Actually even just having little bits of food floating around, and when you eat one it sends out a nice blue expanding ripple, would be really nice to just zone out and look at.

[Nava]

I love the look and feel of this! It's like Frank Miller meets Buddhism.

The movement does feel great, as previously stated. In addition to fixing the graphics issue when doubling back (I assume this is because it's being led by its nose only), I would add maybe a subtle bubble trail behind the fish? Would give it more weight, I think, like you can see that your movements are affecting the environment in some way.


Regarding the objective, that's a toughie. I don't think this crisp an atmosphere deserves to be bogged down with the typical collect or avoid objectives. I might aim for something exploratory or navigational; the minimalist approach to the white boxes makes their borders hard to make out at times, and that can really play into a beautiful maze-like genre.... maybe something that uses inherent optical illusions, like the fact that I see a corner on the white box where no edge is defined by a change in shade? I hope you put in some time and thought into this, because it could be great.

[rbelmont000]

Howdy 404.

Anyway, it's looking pretty sweet. I don't really have any tips or ideas right now, but I like the way you are going. I am also glad that you want to stay away from the traditional artsy gametypes. There's nothing more that I hate than an artsy game with awful gameplay.

[increpare]

i can imagine it working quite well as a chase game; pursued by sharks maybe? or some nameless pollution spreading out?

[Luilak]

I can see it working well as a game in a peaceful environment. Would be great if it had an entirely interactive environment, like other fishies, or creatures, reacting to your movement. If you'd want make to it less sandboxy, the most fitting thing I can think of at this hour in the morning, is a collector type of game.

And as has been said, the movement is really enthralling, though it still might need polish when doing sharp turns or doubling back.

(I just realised that though I try to give some feedback, it might not always be constructive as I'm by no means a game developer (yet, perhaps).)

[Loren Schmidt]

This is pretty fun, Captain_404. I agree with you about the (placeholder) music.

As for the fish itself, I hope you don't mind if I make a few suggestions.

• You might want to try limiting the turning radius. This will keep the fish from turning too abruptly, and will also prevent the 'doubling back' glitch that people have mentioned.
• A bit of inertia would go a long way, I think. A tiny bit of glide before slowing to a stop might feel nice.
• Some fin movement and perhaps a bit of wriggle might be nice too. Right now it's a bit odd that the fish is completely still when not moving.
• Some kind of trail, perhaps bubbles as Nava suggested, could fit well.

I like how the tail stretches slightly while moving, it's fun. I like the platforms and the overall look of this experiment so far. I look forward to seeing where you go with this.

[sergiocornaga]

This looks like the start of something great. The only suggestion I have at this point is to make the fish move slower.

[J.G. Martins]

Hi! Looking good!

I have been toying with the idea of a different movement type precisely related to this kind of gameplay. For example, fish (and snakes) move by making their bodies slither or twist side-to-side, thus pushing the water backwards and impelling themselves forward. A similar mechanic could probably be employed in a game.

Keeping a key pressed would really have no effect, since you were just twisting your body one way. However, alternating the key presses would make you move forward, and probably alternating them with an emphasis one side would make you turn. I'm not really sure how I'd go about either making this or playing games this way, but there you go, it's an idea!

[Captain_404]

Thanks everyone

I agree with everyone's comments about the fish movement, right now it looks more like you're dragging a dead fish through the water, I'm working on wiggling algorithm to make it look more lively. I'll probably fix the doubling back glitches while I'm at it.

Heh, "wiggling algorithm," I never thought I'd hear those two words together.


leeham, what do you mean exactly by ripple dynamics? Is that some kind of special distortion filter I haven't heard about, or just some words you put together?

Nava, some sort of trail sounds interesting, but it would definitely be tough to pull off correctly. I can see that very easily turning into too much.

Your optical illusion comment reminds me, I actually used to a have a little ball in the demo that could move around only in the white space using basic platformer physics. So you'd have to shift your view of the building to get the ball places. It's a cool concept, but it only confused most people... but I do agree that wayfinding will probably play a very important roll in the game.

rbelmont000, hi arby! Yeah, ultimately I think we have to find a balance between meaning and gameplay.  While I don't necessarily believe gameplay should always be fun, it should at least be compelling in some way. But that's a whole other topic, which we've discussed to death before anyway...

increpere, I don't know...it seems like that would necessarily insert a mood of fear in the game, which I don't think it's really built for. I mean, I could see that, but I guess it's just not what I have in mind.

Luilak, hey, don't worry about it. ANY feedback is better than none. Seems to me that a lot of other people I've showed this to seem to want some other fish to interact with as well. Maybe that could play into the game? The current atmosphere is very lonely, perhaps it could be about the natural inclination to look for other life out there.

Sparky, inertia sounds like a great idea. It'll give it a much more watery.

Hehe..."wiggling algorithm"

Anvilfolk, it sure is! But I do like the simplicity of motion as it is right now. I fear an alternating input method like you suggest might make things too complex.


I'll try to get some significant gameplay changes up to show soon... thanks everyone for your feedback! Good and helpful comments all!

[eddietree]

wow i really liked this. very zen-like. We need more Zen-themed games

[agj]

This is beautiful. For some reason I can imagine the dolphin (or whatever it is) being part of a whole shoal.

Keeping a key pressed would really have no effect, since you were just twisting your body one way. However, alternating the key presses would make you move forward, and probably alternating them with an emphasis one side would make you turn. I'm not really sure how I'd go about either making this or playing games this way, but there you go, it's an idea!

That's what I did for The Lake, though in that game you're controlling a boat. It works, in my opinion.

[Captain_404]

Interesting agj, maybe part of the whole experience would be the feeling of being separated from your shoal and trying to get back.

Small update: http://ian.janasnyder.com/BWproto.htm

-fishy fish is fishy
-added a ball to chase around, when you get close enough it will jump to a random location and you can go find it again. Endless fun!

I'd like to hear some people's thoughts on how this seek/find gameplay affects the experience.

In the final version, I plan to make the ball into another fish or something, just so the user feels like they need to chase it, so they build an emotional attachment to it.


It's really nice, in Flash there's this attachEmotion() function, it makes making art games in flash really easy.

Also, I still need to fix the doubling back glitch and write some better music. (funny story, I spent an entire day arranging a track for the game, only to add it in and find that it didn't go with the game at all)

[Inanimate]

Wow, I like the controls. And the visuals of this are amazing! Excellent work!

[Cerogravian]

I really like where this is headed

I didn't try it until now, but I'm assuming that by "-fishy fish is fishy" you mean you've changed the tail and animation? I really have no point of reference, but I think it's better :D
I really think you should slow down the wigglies though, he's looking awfully stressed... Perhaps your current wigglinterval for when he starts from a "standstill", but have it slow down quite quickly is probably best, unless he's one of those jell-o breathing carps I've heard so much about

I played this before I read the thread, so I didn't get the feeling that you were chasing the ball, more like you were collecting several balls that popped up from time to time (someone dropping fish food perhaps?)

When I played it I got an image of playing as a guardian spirit/main attraction at a shintô temple, swimming around the pond at your leisure, and fighting off pollution (people throwing stuff) and/or evil spirit-influences (perhaps illustrated as the same) by turning on your god like-jetstream powers and drawing symbols (Celestial Brush-style) to keep your pond pure and serene...
But that's not as casual, nevermind me.

I like the chase idea, but I think it needs to be a bit more apparent in the game somehow...

[Captain_404]

He is a jello-fish indeed! I don't know, I thought it looked pretty alright, but then again, I'm not around fish a whole lot, so I'm probably wrong...

I don't think it makes a big difference whether it is chasing or collecting at this point, the main thing I'm interested in is how it feels trying to find your way through the city searching for something. Searching would have been a better verb to use than chasing.

I do like the idea of incorporating Japanese mythology into this, but I think I'll leave the fancy painting to white wolves with sun-disks on their back.


Maybe that's part of the game's theme though, you've got a city, evocative of a busy, hustled life sped up even further by all the inventions of science, and a fish, evocative of nature, serenity, and mythology. The two seem very disparate and at odds, but maybe that's the point?

[Loren Schmidt]

I just played your updated version, and I'm glad to see you're still working on this. I wonder what it will be like with the final soundtrack? I think this game has quite a bit of potential, and I look forward to seeing where it goes.

Regarding the 'city'- I thought of the background as slightly watery stars or fireflies or something, rather than literal water. The game always felt pretty abstract to me, which I like, so it never occurred to me to think of the rectangular blocks as a city.

Keep up the good work!

[Cerogravian]

Oh, I forgot to mention, regardless of where you take this, I'd like to see some interaction with the 'waves' (be they stars, biscuits or waterbits), that is, when you're idling (and to a lesser degree when moving) the wave motions push you back and forth a bit?