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TIGSource ForumsCommunityDevLogsRe: Tower57 - Dieselpunk Pixel-Shooter (dinosaurs included)
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Author Topic: Re: Tower57 - Dieselpunk Pixel-Shooter (dinosaurs included)  (Read 41720 times)
Keith
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« Reply #140 on: June 21, 2015, 10:00:25 AM »

Wow. Just wow.

I've been lurking these forums for a long time and there are some projects that just blow my mind. This being one of them.

I have a couple of questions:

1) In an earlier post, you mentioned you're using Tiled. I assume everything else is running on your own engine?

2) Currently, I'm making my own prototypes to learn game making. I'm using Unity, but seeing this makes me wonder if I should learn how to just do everything myself, like it seems you are. So would you recommend to do so?

3) For the falling debris, are the shadows just duplicated sprites and set to a colour or did you make an actual shadow sprite for each piece?

4) For online play, how does implementing it work for a custom engine? Possibly point me towards any places with information regarding networking. Smiley

This game is amazing and I look forward to seeing every update. This game is definitely a must buy for me and I can't wait to play this with a friend. Congratulations on everything so far and I can't wait for all the success you two shall receive. :D
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CyangmouArt
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« Reply #141 on: June 21, 2015, 05:55:31 PM »

3) For the falling debris, are the shadows just duplicated sprites and set to a colour or did you make an actual shadow sprite for each piece?

This game is amazing and I look forward to seeing every update. This game is definitely a must buy for me and I can't wait to play this with a friend. Congratulations on everything so far and I can't wait for all the success you two shall receive. :D

Thanks a lot, we are working hard on it and it's also great for us to answer questions.
I can only answer question 3 to it's full extend, benito will write as soon as he finds some time

(3): all shadows are seperately drawn sprites, mainly because for most of the pieces a duplication just won't look alright from a visual stanpoint. For smaller particles that approach can work, for characters, enemies and props not really.

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Benitosub
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« Reply #142 on: June 22, 2015, 03:17:51 AM »

Hey, thanks a lot for the kind words!

1) yes, we have our own level editor, but I wanted to save some time on the map editing tool, so we decided to use Tiled, which has an open format. So we build the tile maps in Tiled, then drop them into our own editor, and add enemies, lights, scripts, etc.

2) that’s a tricky question. I think it really depends on what you want to achieve: if you are interested in making games first and foremost, and see coding as the means to achieve that goal, then Unity will definitely get you there faster.

If on the other hand you are interested in *how* games and engines actually work, writing your own code will be a priceless learning experience. It will definitely take you longer to get there, but in the end you will have a much better understanding of what your engine is actually doing, why it works or doesn’t, how to make it work better / faster, etc. than you could ever acquire from using a closed WYSWYG engine.

I know people who have jumped into game development starting with Unity, and a couple of years down the line are able to make prototypes and small games, but have no real understanding of what is going on behind the scenes, why their game is performing poorly, what a profiler is, etc.

So think it really depends on what your goal is, whether you want to get there faster or with a more solid base, and as always it all depends on what you are willing to invest into it Smiley

(also even if you are making your own engine, it doesn’t mean you should write *everything* from scratch, most engines use middleware to some extent - for example physics, networking, etc. - which is integrated in the engine so that the other parts of the engine can use it seamlessly)

3) As Cyangmou already mentioned, it’s a mixture of both: small particles can re-use the same sprite, with some squashing and re-coloring. However most debris in the game actually have a shadow-sprite, because it just looks so much better ^_^

4) For online play I’m currently relying on a library called RakNet, which manages connections, NAT punch trough, lobbies, replication, etc. for you. The engine adds a layer on top, which manages the replication of game entities across all clients.

I’m going to grossly simplify here, but it essentially works like this: when an entity is created in the game - a player, an item, a piece of debris, a bullet, etc. - the engine makes sure that this entity is registered with the “replication manager”.

In turn the replication manager ensures that all entities registered with it are present on all connected clients (and automates creating and removing local copies when the entity dies for example).

As you play the game, the replication manager also ensures that all copies of an entity are synchronised, so if for example the position of the entity changes, the change will be replicated across all clients.

Of course this doesn’t take place fully in real time, so you need to use things like interpolation, input prediction, etc. to avoid entities jumping around rather than moving smoothly, but essentially that’s the gist of it: if something exists on one side, it is replicated on all sides so all players see more or less the same thing at any given time.

There’s a lot more to it obviously (who should have the final say on what happens to an entity? what if you need to generate something “randomly”, how do you make sure the random value is the same on both sides? what if somebody joins in mid-game, how do you sync the current game state efficiently? etc.) but thankfully there are also a lot of resources and tutorials online Smiley

If you have a c++ environment set-up, you can also just download RakNet for free and look at their code samples, that should help answer some of your questions (and will probably give you a lot of ideas of cool stuff you could do with it Wink ).

Thank you again for the kind words of encouragement! I hope you will enjoy the upcoming updates even more, we got some cool stuff brewing Wink
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Keith
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« Reply #143 on: June 22, 2015, 04:37:30 AM »

I don't think your answer is long enough or detailed. Wink

Haha. Wow. Thanks for the insightful information. You definitely have me intrigued into looking into writing my own engine. I hope I'm not straying too far off but your game is quite inspiring. Just one last question regarding engines.

Where is a good place to find information on starting to write my own engine? Any examples/tutorials you know that have helped you when you first started? It's fine if you want to tell me just to Google things, haha. I just wanted to see how you first started out and any references you may know of.

Back to the game though, if this game doesn't win awards then I'd be at a loss for words. Cyangmou is definitely one of the best pixel artists I've seen. He's able to create a world that has a continuous atmosphere to it. I see how people get the Bioshock feeling, but this is definitely it's own beast.

Also, from the gifs you've shown, the gameplay looks smooth. It's really enjoyable to watch you add and improve gameplay elements. To see you do so in such a frequent matter and what seems like ease, only goes to show the excellent skills you have as a programmer.

Together, the two of you will continue to make this awesome game that people will realize not only do they want it, but they need it. The most exciting part of all this is to see how you two will continue on from here once you've finished this. Smiley

Once again, great work and I look forward to see what's next.

*pew pew* I just shot a crate in my mind and watched the glorious debris fly all over the place. Oh man, is this game done yet? Haha.
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Benitosub
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« Reply #144 on: June 27, 2015, 05:49:32 PM »

Hey Keith!

Sorry I missed your reply! I'm not sure where you could find "the best" information about writing engines online, when I started we still used books  Embarrassed

One thing which I found helped me a lot was looking at other engines and how they did stuff (though how much you can take away from it depends heavily on your ability to read and understand other people's code), so maybe you could start by checking out some small free open source engines?

Start with the lowest layers such as rendering, input management, resource management etc. and work your way up to things like tools and game systems Smiley Don't hesitate to mail me if you want more details!

And thanks for the kind words ^_^
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tower57
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« Reply #145 on: June 27, 2015, 05:50:24 PM »


Welcome back to another update!

This week work continued on the trailer, more specifically we are striving to make the various locations feel as polished as possible - of course they are really just tiny level mockups using unfinished tilesets and missing tons of props and such, but that’s why we are kickstarting the game after all ^_^

With that in mind, we added some light rays to the sewer level:



Furthermore no red light district would be complete without some hustle and bustle, so Amor’s Den will get its own traffic, both pedestrian and motorized:






The point I mentioned above regarding locations stands for enemies as well, of course we have plenty of concepts and ideas, but most of them remained to be produced. However we didn’t want people watching the trailer to think that the game only features robots for enemies, so we added an enemy guard.

The only problem was that we really wanted to show him dying in battle, but we don’t have “death animations” yet, and because of our paperdolling system, creating new animations is a somewhat lenghty process.

Here’s how we’re getting around that one:




And that wraps up this week’s update, I hope everybody enjoyed it!

If you want to get the update (plus some juicy extras) in your mailbox every week, feel free to sign up to our mailing list over at http://eepurl.com/boYiJP

Cheers!
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kriyo_funions
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« Reply #146 on: June 27, 2015, 09:21:16 PM »

it blows my mind how well cyangmou can translate stationary/moving form in pixels, even that light gawd
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Benitosub
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« Reply #147 on: June 28, 2015, 10:26:31 AM »

Actually the light effect is done in code ^_^' But yeah I completely agree with you, Cyangmou blows my mind as well!
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Crabby
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« Reply #148 on: June 29, 2015, 07:22:11 AM »

Those pixel art vehicles. Just wow.
Looks amazing.
And that guard died a very painful death.
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Keith
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« Reply #149 on: June 29, 2015, 07:44:16 AM »

Insightful words.

Thanks for the reply. Smiley

That's some great advice that I'll make sure to listen to. I'll start looking around. Right now though, the game I'm working on has been possible because I know Unity so for now I'll continue with that. One day I'll attempt a small game by making my own engine.

Thanks for everything.

The train level looks amazing.
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Benitosub
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« Reply #150 on: June 30, 2015, 10:38:39 AM »

@Crabby thanks and trust me, he had it coming!

@Keith cool, be sure to post about your game once you have something you feel comfortable showing; it does wonders about staying motivated Smiley
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« Reply #151 on: June 30, 2015, 11:19:06 AM »

That Amiga feel. Gentleman

I first saw Tower57 on indiedb, my fellow illustrator was doing some research for sprite animations and stumbled upon your game. We've been mesmerized by your AI flocking behavior (and he tried to force me to do similar stuff in our game...).
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« Reply #152 on: July 03, 2015, 10:06:30 AM »

I LOVE the art.  :D
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Benitosub
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« Reply #153 on: July 04, 2015, 09:24:26 AM »

@dez thanks :D !

@MrHelmut yeah I grew up playing on an A500, I'm glad you're mentioning it cause that's the feel we're trying to hit ^_^ I checked out NeuroVoider, looks pretty fun too, and really cool lighting! I also noticed at least one of you is based in France =D Gros salut obligatoire depuis Berlin Smiley C'est quoi vos plans pour le jeu, Steam, Greenlight, vous avez un éditeur? En tout cas bonne merde, le jeu a l'air terrible!
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tower57
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« Reply #154 on: July 05, 2015, 11:38:36 AM »

Welcome back to another update everybody!



And a very happy Independence Day to our American friends! Here’s our very own 4th of July BBQ to celebrate freedom Smiley









This week we’re looking back on the past month or so, which has been extremely productive. In this time we have gone from a single demo level and a bunch of concept drawings to a fully fleshed game world with 5 new unique tilesets and counting!









And in other big news (at least for us ^_^’), we now have a set date for the start of our Kickstarter campaign: we will be launching on Monday August 3rd!



To drum up some badly needed awareness for our campaign, we will also be posting a daily countdown gif or image through our twitter @tower57devlog until the start of the campaign. And of course for those who want more detailed updates, there is always the mailing list over at http://eepurl.com/boYiJP 



And finally in slightly sadder news, next week’s update will probably be our last until the start of the campaign, as we re-focus all our efforts on polishing the trailer, the Kickstarter landing page, the perks, the stretch goals, contacting you-tubers, press, preparing campaign updates, and a hundred more little things (for those of you who might be interested in that kind of stuff, there is always the mailing list of course).



Fear not however, we’ll go out with a bang Wink



Have a great week-end everybody!
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Crabby
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« Reply #155 on: July 06, 2015, 02:11:27 PM »

Woah. Those buildings are insane. Crazy cool stuff.
Best of luck on the Kickstarter.  Smiley Toast Right
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tower57
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« Reply #156 on: July 12, 2015, 10:54:48 AM »

Thanks, we'll need all the luck we can get!
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tower57
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« Reply #157 on: July 12, 2015, 10:57:58 AM »

Welcome back everybody!

This will be our last update for the next month or so, as the clock is ticking and we need to pour every resource available into (hopefully!) making our campaign a successful one.

This week we've been busy polishing up and recording the various trailer scenes. Here are some of the results we've been sharing throughout the week on our #tower57devlog twitter feed:













Considering 30 updates / weeks is quite some time in an indie game's life-cycle, we also wanted to share with you how far we have come in those seven and a half months.

This was probably one of the first rooms I built with Cyangmou's tiles, before the game even turned into a collaboration:




It wasn't long before I started playing around with lights:




And a character! (even though at that point the character was still in black and white, and would remain so for quite some time!)




Next up were weapons:




And here is where we are almost 8 months later, after a full engine rewrite, 2 level editors (with a 3rd - and final! - one on the way), and 2 live demos at indie events (with a 3rd one coming up in 3 weeks!).




As you can see we've come a long way, and are eagerly looking forward to an even longer way ahead of us.

Thank you all for following and supporting us during those 30 weeks! Don't forget you can still sign up for the mailing list over at http://eepurl.com/boYiJP and hopefully see you all in 20 days in our KS comment section ^_^

Cheers!

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MrHelmut
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« Reply #158 on: July 13, 2015, 11:15:36 AM »

@dez thanks :D !

@MrHelmut yeah I grew up playing on an A500, I'm glad you're mentioning it cause that's the feel we're trying to hit ^_^ I checked out NeuroVoider, looks pretty fun too, and really cool lighting! I also noticed at least one of you is based in France =D Gros salut obligatoire depuis Berlin Smiley C'est quoi vos plans pour le jeu, Steam, Greenlight, vous avez un éditeur? En tout cas bonne merde, le jeu a l'air terrible!
Hey, salut! Tower57 really has that Amiga feel in the sprite style and animation. And thanks for checking NeuroVoider! I've been very silent here (not to say that I am bad at keeping threads updated...) but I'll be giving news anytime soon (after the GDC/Gamescom, will be there?). So far so good.
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Benitosub
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« Reply #159 on: July 15, 2015, 02:26:41 PM »

Sadly won't make it to the Gamescom this year, but I'm really looking forward to seeing and reading more about NeuroVoider!
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