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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperPlaytestingA Hole New World (NES-like Action Plattformer)
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jjhaggar
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« on: December 22, 2014, 04:50:23 PM »

Hello! :D

We'd love to hear what you think about our game (we prefer criticisms over compliments ^_^)

If you are interested in playtesting, please send me a message and I'll send you a link to the lastest build. If you already received a link you can still use it, but since we did a Kickstarter campaign with a betatesting reward, in deference to our backers we can't give new links, sorry.

Some screenshots:






You can also watch a video gameplay from the (old) Ludum Dare version here



List of the issues mentioned here so far, and -> Possible solutions:
-Problems with the audio on a 5.1 sound system (audio comes through the rear speakers instead of the front). -> We'd need some more feedback from people with similar setups.
-Lack of Controls Options. -> We plan on letting the players configure some of the controls.
-The initial cutscene seemed slow (low frame-rate). -> We plan to improve all cutscenes.
-The walking animation is a bit weird (you can only see leg moving forward, maybe the cape could help). -> We'll try to fix this.
-The splash from the main attacks goes the same direction in both worlds (splash damages enemies, so this is an important detail). -> We are discussing about this, probably we'll change it.
-The "Continue?" screen needs more options. -> We plan on adding a save option, and/or probably a password option.
-Ghosts see you even if they aren't looking at you. -> They can feel your soul, so they'll turn to you when you are near them ;) but maybe we could add some kind of transition animation while they are turning.
-Unfair damage produced because of enemies (or other elements) when changing world. -> We are trying to design levels so you won't run into unexpected damage when changing world. Enemies don't move until you are near them and in their same world, so you always have some second fractions before being attacked by them.
-First boss battle. I would rather feel like I'm desperately fighting for my life rather than just getting slaughtered. -> Right now the outcome of the fight is the same, no matter if you die by this boss hand or if you "defeat" him. We are planning on changing this, we'll probably make this fight like it might be possible to win (or actually will be possible to "win"). Maybe the result will slightly change if you can damage the boss enough (another animation, and get some points), and will continue the same as it is now if you cannot damage him before you left 1 health point only. Maybe also make the boss move more quickly after being hit as Quicksand-S said.
-A way to throw the main weapon straight, or maybe at a downward angle would be helpful. -> We don't plan to change this at the moment, because there are another weapons in the game that do that. Anyway, we'll think about the possibilities.
-Change how crows behave? (so that they are easier to hit). -> We are discussing about improving the movement of these and other enemies.
-Graphics from level 1 could use a little bit of more detail. -> We plan on touch up all the graphics of the game so they fit well together.
-The sounds used in the music are not nice? -> We like the music right now, but we are open to any advice that helps us to improve it, or any other aspect of the game :)
-Options: full-screen toggle, volume sliders, etc. -> Probably we'll add this on a pause menu.
-Escape key is problematic. A menu when pressing escape would be cool. -> We'll probably change this so the game shows the pause menu when escape is pressed (of course, one of the options will be "exit game" XD).
-Saving progress would be nice. -> We are discussing about implementing several ways of saving progress. Two different options on the continue screen for the actual game, save (savestate) and password. Also one options for saving the actual gamestate (or maybe just last checkpoint) from the pause menu.

Thanks for your feedback! :D
JJ
« Last Edit: February 06, 2016, 07:33:00 AM by jjhaggar » Logged

Homepage: www.madgeargames.com
DevLog: A Hole New World (yes, "Hole", not "Whole" XD)
Twitter: @JJHaggar

Soon on Steam! https://goo.gl/vOcpdq  :D
baconman
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« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2014, 01:20:11 PM »

Loving the flip-world mechanic, and how you do plenty of stuff with your one interactive thing (the holy water). Gonna play some up and go for more feedback soon. Great color selection too, btw!
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jjhaggar
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« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2014, 02:02:46 PM »

Glad you liked what you saw, link sent ;)
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Homepage: www.madgeargames.com
DevLog: A Hole New World (yes, "Hole", not "Whole" XD)
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Quicksand-S
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« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2014, 05:26:39 PM »

I played the old demo, so I don't know what you've changed/improved since the competition.

-The initial cutscene seemed really slow. I thought I was having slowdown issues, but the game itself is fine so I guess it was just designed that way. I feel like it could've had twice the frame-rate and looked much better.

-The walking animation is a bit weird since you can only see the leg moving forward, not the one moving back. Maybe the cape could do something to make the animation look less stiff.

-I think this looks fixed in the newer version, but the character is a couple of pixels too low and covering up the ground slightly.

-I love the ghost enemy thing's death animation. The attack/dash animation is pretty good too because it makes me kinda tense up as I jump out of the way.

-A way to throw the holy water straight, or maybe at a downward angle would be very helpful, but maybe it would break too much of the game. I don't know.

-It's strange that jumping beside a spike damages you. I didn't even feel like I touched it at all.

-At one point, I entered the side of a wall slightly. I couldn't reproduce that issue, though.

-It's a small thing, but the splash from the water goes the same direction no matter which world you're in.

-In the first area where you're actually forced to go into the flipped world, I hit a spike, bounced up into the other world, hit a spike, fell, tried to move onto a platform in the bottom world but somehow bounced back up into the top world, hit a spike, fell, bounced up again, hit a spike and died. No matter what I did, I never moved onto the platform in the bottom world even though I should have had enough momentum to get onto it and I was holding a directional key the whole time. It was frustrating to die that way without any chance to escape.

-The "Continue?" screen seems like it should have options on it.

-The music gets repetitive really quickly.

-I don't really like how ghosts see me even if they have their backs to me. It caused a lot of damage that felt unfair.

-Almost 100% of the damage I took was from entering another world. Maybe the AI could slowly move away from holes (or just your position) when you're not in their world. As it is in that demo, I lose so much health from getting hit multiple times by enemies I had no way of knowing were there that when I get to later parts of the level I've only got one or two hearts left.

-Some enemy variety would be nice. It gets a little repetitive dealing with the same enemy for so long.

-Level 1 seems surprisingly long (I thought it would end before I delved deeper into the other world) and having to do it over from the start after dying was a pain.

After dying a bunch of times, I had no interest in starting over again. My only major issue is the unfair hits (and the lack of checkpoints which makes that unfairness harder to take). The movement feels pretty good, the water-throwing is limited but easy to get used to and the graphics are decent.
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« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2014, 03:21:18 AM »

Thank you very much for your feedback, that's exactly what we want, every little detail of game that you don't like :)

We fixed most of the things you write in the new build, so I've sent you a download link.

Only things that are not fixed (still) are:
-The initial cutscene (we plan to fix this soon)
-The walking animation (we plan to fix this)
-The splash from the water goes the same direction in both worlds. This is not a bug, but a feature XD No, really, we did it on purpose ^^ In the infraworld, shadows and magic floating enemies don't flip, and the same thing happens with the magic/sacred water. We weren't sure of this one though, do you think it should be changed?
-The "Continue?" screen. We plan on adding save option (or probably password option).
-Almost 100% of the damage I took was from entering another world. The enemies don't spawn until you are close and in the same world, so you have some moments before they attack you, but only the first time you reach each place. Anyway, we will think about the AI making them move away of you when they are in the opposite world.

By the way, Merry Xmas! ^^
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Homepage: www.madgeargames.com
DevLog: A Hole New World (yes, "Hole", not "Whole" XD)
Twitter: @JJHaggar

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Quicksand-S
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« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2014, 11:06:42 AM »

The splash from the water goes the same direction in both worlds. This is not a bug, but a feature XD No, really, we did it on purpose ^^ In the infraworld, shadows and magic floating enemies don't flip, and the same thing happens with the magic/sacred water. We weren't sure of this one though, do you think it should be changed?

Well, the splash damages enemies, right? (It seemed to, but I'm not 100% sure) It's much more useful if it moves away from the ground rather than flying up into solid matter where it's not going to hit any enemies (plus that's just a bit weird-looking). From a story/gameworld perspective, I think it makes sense that since gravity is flipped the splash would also be flipped. It's also just more consistent because everything else from the upper world acts in the opposite way when in the other world (the player, the meat, the arc of the thrown bottles...).



Update: I gave the full version a try. The level design is much better. I didn't like the first boss battle. I know it's done for story purposes, but I would rather feel like I'm desperately fighting for my life rather than just getting slaughtered.

My only really major issue with the game is the main weapon. It's really annoying that my character can't throw the bottle forward at bats or spiders that are right in front of him. I ended up with about five bats chasing me through level 2 because they were close enough that I couldn't hit them with the water and I couldn't stop moving forward because then they'd hit me. It was terrible and I ended up rage-quitting after dying to a spider or something with that huge cluster of bats on my tail.

If you don't want to let players control their throwing arc at all, then I'd recommend changing how bats behave. Maybe they could fly up high and dive-bomb you at a shallow angle, or above until they're almost over you and then down. Both of those movement styles would give players a little more opportunity to hit them. Personally, though, I think just making the throwing have a lower arc (or just having it start closer to horizontal) would improve things a lot.

I like the graphics of level 2. It actually makes me think level 1's graphics could use a little more detail. The enemy variety is nice. I thought the spiders on the ground were skunks for a while, though, because their tails are bright and their legs don't stand out at all. I didn't like that they were always popping out of holes right in front of me, but maybe that would be fine if I didn't have bats right behind me and could dodge more easily.

I'm not a fan of the music (It's the sounds used. The tunes are fine), but at least it's not as repetitive as before.

For the most part, the game feels a lot better. I think it would be nice to have some options, like a full-screen toggle, volume sliders, etc.

I find that pressing Escape to quit can be a bit of a problem in games. A lot of the time, if I suddenly have to pause for whatever reason, I'll hit Escape automatically. In this game, I'd lose all my progress. Some sort of confirmation pop-up might be good, and an actual menu would be better. On a related note, I really hope you plan on saving the player's progress. Just being able to start from the level I ended at would be nice. Personally, I think it might be better for sales as well. Games feel shorter when I finish them in one session rather than spreading things out over the course of a few days.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2014, 12:34:29 PM by Quicksand-S » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2014, 09:10:40 PM »

I'm digging it so far, but there's one bug I've found (I think):

I've got a 5.1 sound system, and the audio seems to be coming through the rear speakers instead of the front. My setup is a bit atypical, so I honestly can't tell you for certain if it's your game or my system. Might want to find some more people with 5.1 setups to see if it's an issue or not.

The game is fun, tho. The movement and everything feels nice and tight. I'd like control options, but I'm assuming that that's on the to-do list. I'll have to have a longer go of it tomorrow to give you more useful feedback.
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Daniel Pellicer
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« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2014, 03:12:31 AM »

hey Quicksand-S there is a lot of super useful feedback there thanks!

Im main software developer in the game and I also do the music. The sounds are like this because we are emulating nes sounds using the chip that a nes had.

About the first boss fight:
How would you do it so that you cannot beat him but that it makes you feel good?

We tried to take this as reference => https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ePzh4VcwU44#t=167
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Quicksand-S
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« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2014, 07:20:44 AM »

hey Quicksand-S there is a lot of super useful feedback there thanks!

Im main software developer in the game and I also do the music. The sounds are like this because we are emulating nes sounds using the chip that a nes had.

About the first boss fight:
How would you do it so that you cannot beat him but that it makes you feel good?

We tried to take this as reference => https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ePzh4VcwU44#t=167

I love a lot of NES music, and this certainly isn't the worst I've heard. Not even close. I'll try to figure out what I dislike about it.

I think the title screen music is too much on the treble side of things. What I would expect to be a bass-line in it is actually not bassy, so it ends up being unbalanced to my ears. The in-game music for level 1 handles the treble/bass balance better, but I just really dislike the sound of the main instrument. The Forest Theme is better, I think, although the ending has some strange/harsh notes.

The NES was capable of producing a lot of cool sounds. Just listen to the amount of variety in the Journey to Silius soundtrack. The Castlevania soundtrack also has some good sounds in it. I think your primary instrument in level 1 is just using a certain octave that sounds irritating to my ears. Something higher might feel energetic, while something lower could be powerful or blend nicely with the bass-line. For some reason, the notes in the middle grate on my ears. That said, I could just be weird so it would be good to get more input on that from others.

I do really think the loop needs to either be a lot longer than 40sec or needs to contain a bit more variety in those 40sec so that when it starts over it doesn't feel like you just heard that part a few seconds earlier. (I'm guilty of this too. I find 40sec tracks so much easier to produce than longer ones.)

The snow theme is probably my favorite, although it cuts off just when it seems like it could be about to enter a great bridge or something.

As for the boss fight, I think it's important to make the player feel like they're doing something. It has to seem like it might be possible to win, otherwise what's the point of fighting at all? They may as well just jump into the enemy over and over until they lose. I think what would help is if the enemy didn't always have their shield on (or didn't have one at all). Give the player a chance to hit the boss and have the boss react (maybe flashing like the one in Mega-Man). Maybe make the boss move more quickly after being hit, so that the player will still be overwhelmed within a reasonable period of time no matter how good their reflexes are.
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« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2014, 09:30:14 AM »

As for the boss fight, I think it's important to make the player feel like they're doing something. It has to seem like it might be possible to win, otherwise what's the point of fighting at all? They may as well just jump into the enemy over and over until they lose. I think what would help is if the enemy didn't always have their shield on (or didn't have one at all). Give the player a chance to hit the boss and have the boss react (maybe flashing like the one in Mega-Man). Maybe make the boss move more quickly after being hit, so that the player will still be overwhelmed within a reasonable period of time no matter how good their reflexes are.

Aham! This sounds nice. We will try to implement something like this. We also noted down all the other things you said and we will try to implement them progresively.

Thanks for all the feedback!
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« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2014, 04:46:38 AM »

Thank you very much for all the feedback, I hope you will continue helping us to improve while we are developing the new versions of the game :) I'm updating the first post with all the issues mentioned and how we plan to approach them.

@Squiggly_P: We are planning on adding some control options, but which options do you miss?

@Quicksand-S: Thx for all the input :D
Only one thing, flying crows are killable in close combat, you just need to be a bit daredevil XD


Also, Merry Xmas! :D
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Homepage: www.madgeargames.com
DevLog: A Hole New World (yes, "Hole", not "Whole" XD)
Twitter: @JJHaggar

Soon on Steam! https://goo.gl/vOcpdq  :D
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