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[wazeau]

My first impression was also: Hey! Cars don't float!!!.
http://i.imgur.com/UboSc88.jpg
Technically, this would actually float as long as it's closed and water doesn't seep in.   Heck, even CONCRETE ships can be buoyant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concrete_ship

So, then the question becomes, would a flying car belong in a WW2 game?  If not, then it'd be best to somehow drop in a few "hints" from the beginning that the game isn't going for realism. That way people won't be surprised or wondering why cars float much like seeing people and objects fly in a Harry Potter movie.

On the other hand, if you added certain floating objects to cars (empty oil or plastic barrels, gas canisters, etc) then you could still make it realistic.  But, overall, there seem to be a few other objects that seem to miracously float, so I'd steer (pun #2 intended) away from realism and a bit toward fantasy.

Ye tbh, I'm not a big fan of the cars floating like this either
In no way do we want to make a hyper realistic game but there's still some rules we should follow imo. Just because we have a silly quirky unrealistic world doesn't mean we should just get rid of all logic. That cheapens the world and takes you out of it.

I'm willing to accept there's magic and dragons in Game of Thrones for instance, but that doesn't mean fast travel or crows with rocket engines should exist in it

That said I think we still might look for a better solution for floating leaky objects like you said. We'll have enough places to put them later that makes more sense.

[wazeau]

Whoopsydaiserinos! PC Gamer made an article about Flotsam! Pretty exciting to see a site I read every day making an article about our silly game
Read all about it here: http://www.pcgamer.com/build-a-driftwood-city-in-the-beautiful-blue-world-of-flotsam/


That being said, here are some new concepts for a new water collecting building!
Drifters we're getting a bit thirsty in our latest build, so we're working on a desalinator to get fresh water!

To craft this you have to find a huge buoy in the ocean, which then can be used to build the kettle that separates the salt from seawater. We wanted to add some unique resource that you have to collect for this building. I also wanted this resource to be super visible in the building design this time. One of those awesome huge ocean buoys seemed to do the trick. The top cage-like part doubles up perfectly for a place to hold firewood too.

Unlike with the rain collecting funnels, you actually need to have someone assigned to work in it.
A drifter has to paddle on a bike to pump up the water. They'll also need to add wood in the oven for it to work. This way we both have a nice time sink for 1 drifter AND a small resource sink. We don't want water collecting too be too easy or automatic.



Originally this desalinator was supposed to be a higher tier building, but we needed a way of collecting water for when it's not raining, with some more player control. Therefore we decided to make this an early game solution instead. The water funnels  will be an alternative that needs a more rare resource like a radar dish or something. Or they'll just be an alternative that's a bit less reliable but doesn't need investments.
The desalinator also gives the player a clear goal at the start to search for huge buoys and pipes to craft their first water collecting building.

[io3 creations]

My first impression was also: Hey! Cars don't float!!!.
http://i.imgur.com/UboSc88.jpg
Technically, this would actually float as long as it's closed and water doesn't seep in.   Heck, even CONCRETE ships can be buoyant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concrete_ship

So, then the question becomes, would a flying car belong in a WW2 game?  If not, then it'd be best to somehow drop in a few "hints" from the beginning that the game isn't going for realism. That way people won't be surprised or wondering why cars float much like seeing people and objects fly in a Harry Potter movie.

On the other hand, if you added certain floating objects to cars (empty oil or plastic barrels, gas canisters, etc) then you could still make it realistic.  But, overall, there seem to be a few other objects that seem to miracously float, so I'd steer (pun #2 intended) away from realism and a bit toward fantasy.

Ye tbh, I'm not a big fan of the cars floating like this either
In no way do we want to make a hyper realistic game but there's still some rules we should follow imo. Just because we have a silly quirky unrealistic world doesn't mean we should just get rid of all logic. That cheapens the world and takes you out of it.

I'm willing to accept there's magic and dragons in Game of Thrones for instance, but that doesn't mean fast travel or crows with rocket engines should exist in it

That said I think we still might look for a better solution for floating leaky objects like you said. We'll have enough places to put them later that makes more sense.

I've seen a few discussions regarding this topic and the consensus is that, there has to be rules for the world you create.  Those rules don't have to be realistic as in our world, but those have to applied consistently.  That's where logic plays a role.

However, there are also other factors at play.  I haven't seen Game of Thrones, so some of the following might be answered differently.  You mentioned magic.  Isn't magic basically "make anything happen".  If it isn't mentioned explicitly that magic is still limited/constrained to what it can do, then somebody could come along and find a spell that can conjure anything (even rocket powered crows).  If magic can make anything happen, then logically, that would make sense.  Then it's not just a question of logic, but people's preference/beliefs/expectations.  Game of Thrones looks like a "medieval" fantasy and my guess is that is why you may not like certain types of machines.

Similarly, I remember someone mentioning a movie with a similar issue of not understanding why people only used melee weapons (e.g. swords) when they had technology to manufacture motorcycles.  The technology was certainly there to create projectile based or fuel powered weapons so to him it seemed illogical that they would fight with swords even while riding motorcycles.  Not sure if it was mentioned in the movie but even if it was, people's beliefs, filters, preferences, expectations, etc will play a role.

Going back to my initial strong reaction to the floating cars was influenced by having followed the devlog for a while and expecting a game that is very close to reality.  Of course, there are very few games that are hyper realistic, I wouldn't expect that.  But now that I've seen the floating cars and broken up planes, I'm actually fine with it within the context of Flotsam.  Interestingly, the "3d cartoon" visuals definitely helped because if the game had a photorealistic visual style, then I'd still be thinking:
Hey! Cars don't float!!!

[flex$]

the most impressive aspect of this project so far to me is the unified vision; the aesthetics are striking and memorable and fit the tone of the game perfectly, which, while many attempt, few succeed in. keep up the good work guys

[wazeau]

I've seen a few discussions regarding this topic and the consensus is that, there has to be rules for the world you create.  Those rules don't have to be realistic as in our world, but those have to applied consistently.  That's where logic plays a role.

Yes exactly,
I suppose if you haven't seen Game of Thrones the example doesn't really help To explain it fast: The world of GoT felt really big in the first few seasons with journeys taking several episodes. In the last season they suddenly were able to travel a lot faster, which felt odd. By rocket fueled ravens I meant they suddenly flew across the continent in no time compared to previous seasons.

As for the movie with the motorcycles you talk about. If the movie establishes motorcycles from the start it shouldn't really matter I think, depending how realistic it is of course. Then again I don't know the movie

The main thing is that we don't want to break the player's suspension of disbelief that they already have with our game. They accept that the world is flooded completely and everyone somehow lives on floating villages of garbage. Anything that the player find inconsistent with that world will break their immersion.
We already had a few ppl say something about the cars so I think it's already happening a little bit.

Hopefully we can find a good balance.

the most impressive aspect of this project so far to me is the unified vision; the aesthetics are striking and memorable and fit the tone of the game perfectly, which, while many attempt, few succeed in. keep up the good work guys

That's a nice compliment!
Ye we try to get as close as possible to the concept art. Sometimes it's challenging (like with the water ) but I feel we're on the right track! Thanks a lot

[io3 creations]

I've seen a few discussions regarding this topic and the consensus is that, there has to be rules for the world you create.  Those rules don't have to be realistic as in our world, but those have to applied consistently.  That's where logic plays a role.

Yes exactly,
I suppose if you haven't seen Game of Thrones the example doesn't really help To explain it fast: The world of GoT felt really big in the first few seasons with journeys taking several episodes. In the last season they suddenly were able to travel a lot faster, which felt odd. By rocket fueled ravens I meant they suddenly flew across the continent in no time compared to previous seasons.

As for the movie with the motorcycles you talk about. If the movie establishes motorcycles from the start it shouldn't really matter I think, depending how realistic it is of course. Then again I don't know the movie

The main thing is that we don't want to break the player's suspension of disbelief that they already have with our game. They accept that the world is flooded completely and everyone somehow lives on floating villages of garbage. Anything that the player find inconsistent with that world will break their immersion.
We already had a few ppl say something about the cars so I think it's already happening a little bit.

Hopefully we can find a good balance.

Was there an explanation as to why they could travel faster?  Maybe they figured that instead walking next to horses, they could actually ride them!   Or following my magic example of "anything can happen", they found a spell that can create portals?


I was thinking that perhaps showing animals that don't actually exist currently early on in the game could "hint" that the game is not meant to be completely realistic.  But then I thought that people in general are familiar with fantasy creatures but with the floating cars, the issue might be that you are defying a physical law and that's something different.  Here's another idea.  Since it looks like that the game takes place in the "future", car technologies have improved the the frame is primarily made of ultra-light weight composites or something that might actually float.  Might have been mentioned but if you need to keep the game closer to reality, perhaps place cars on top of something that is near the water level.  Could be very small islands, coral reefs or buildings.  The top part may not actually stick out of the water so it could still be approached by small boats. As for explanation how those got there: "Giant tsunami wave"

[Juwdah]

Here's another idea.  Since it looks like that the game takes place in the "future", car technologies have improved the the frame is primarily made of ultra-light weight composites or something that might actually float.  Might have been mentioned but if you need to keep the game closer to reality, perhaps place cars on top of something that is near the water level.  Could be very small islands, coral reefs or buildings.  The top part may not actually stick out of the water so it could still be approached by small boats. As for explanation how those got there: "Giant tsunami wave"

But.. they're like 1970's cars. 
Well we actually originally made the cars to put them on viaducts and surfaced ruins. We just threw them in as flotsam for a test and it "stuck" as it was pretty fun + a food source.
Unsure if we'll keep it in the long run though.

We've added the desalinator from the concept to the game, adding wood and a working drifter now produces freshwater!



It's not completely finished for the art part yet, but hey it's usable code-wise!

[naro gamedev]

Really cool looking game.

[Ishi]

Been following this for ages but don't think I commented yet. The art style is just great, I love how tastefully the cartoon style has been done. Good luck with the project

[Juwdah]

@TheCyberClan Thanks for the kind words 

@Ishi O hey man right back at ya, you're doing mighty fine!

[Juwdah]

Scare some people today 

[wazeau]

Now that we're done with the art of the water buildings, we're moving on to a food gathering building!
This is the Fishing Hut. This building has a huge net which can be lowered under your town. Your drifters can use light to attract fish near the net and scoop them up out of the water to make fish sticks!



They are based on fishing huts you can find in France, I think they're called "carrelets". Always found those really cool.

[wazeau]

Aaaand now for the 3rd dimension!
Now we only gotta animate the net to go underwater and scoop up the fish!

[JobLeonard]

Ready for some microplastic, mercury and radioactive waste containing fish!

[elosociu]

I LOVE  the concept AND the look for this game!! Can't wait to see it finished!!

[Juwdah]

Ready for some microplastic, mercury and radioactive waste containing fish!

Some Radioactive Octo Pie coming straight up!

I LOVE  the concept AND the look for this game!! Can't wait to see it finished!!

  Thanks! Doing our best to get it in people's hands!

[Juwdah]

We're concepting more unique pieces of flotsam, which give more rare resources such as cloth. It will be needed to then build higher-end buildings.

[Juwdah]

Started with the building animations! They take hella work but really worth it considering the amount of life they add to the game + Gameplay value knowing which buildings are being worked in.

[JobLeonard]

Slowly it's all coming to life

[io3 creations]

Started with the building animations! They take hella work but really worth it considering the amount of life they add to the game + Gameplay value knowing which buildings are being worked in.

You mean adding few animations, vertex shaders and particles effects?  That'd be quite simple!    In seriousness though, those "minor details" do indeed add a lot.


Oh, I've been wondering about the wave motion but hasn't been an issue so far (perhaps due to the small gifs and of course since I haven't played the game - i.e. haven't had to look at the objects moving with the waves for long). 
But in the latest one, with that large unexpected wave I experienced a bit of motion sickness.  I wondered it was due to the unexpected aspect and/or the size of the wave.  Perhaps, if I had seen the wave ahead of time (i.e. items farther from you being moved), I might have been able to better expect it.  But, IIRC you can rotate the camera around so having the wave come from the "right direction" wouldn't be possible.  Either way, I'm wondering if that aspect had been given any consideration or have you received any feedback especially after many hours of gameplay.