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[Zizka]

I read your blog post. I'm don't want to make assumption about the prose so just to clarify:

From my observations, people have a short attention span. I usually browse a project on TIG for about 5 seconds before I decide whether I want to get more involved with it or not. I'm certain I'm not the only one who does.

During that 5 seconds, something needs to grab my attention. I find most of the time game presentation don't keep me interested.

It's sort of like kids with carrots. Sometimes you need to mix them with something they like for them to eat them. Sort of trick them into it so to speak which comes back to:

And "high quality" assets can play an important role and help your game even if they are 100% promotional. This doesn't need to be art. You could get a professional to film your kickstarter video or whatever seems fitting. I could give tons of examples how other's use this but I wanted to tell my own experience in that regard because it was such a small investment that changed so much in the end. And because I was talking about my side projects anyway in the discussion with JobLeonard.

Which I really agree with. I think a lot of people at TIG are artists and clueless about marketing (I'm including myself in the lot). There's also one aspect of marketing which involves a lot of, how shall I put it, strategy. There's a fine line between strategy and being manipulative and I often find myself where to draw that line. You know, all of those sales techniques people write books about. So maybe the "problem" wasn't so much with the product as to how it was pitched.

Anyways, I'll leave my contribution at that, feel like I'm rambling. I'll keep on reading though, maybe you'll have a marketing epiphany.

[teefal]

JobLeonard, that aspiration video is hilarious, especially the duck cartoon and the cardboard box cribs.  More seriously, I think the danger is in being consumers rather than creators.

[oahda]

Maybe Patreon would be suitable in this situation? Starting a new campaign right after another is probably a weird thing to do, but maybe you can redirect those who wanted to support you, and any newcomers, to a Patreon account, where they can pledge and you'll be guaranteed the money, no matter how much or how little?

The idea of rolling this into a Patron or indigogo makes good business sense, but it personally makes me ill to even consider it.  I think I need a healthy break before I can weather another one of these ... popularity contests.

Well, I was thinking that Patreon is entirely different from campaigns like those on KS or IG. You basically just slap the page up and customise at a bit and then just leave it. Link it to those who supported your KS and tell them that they can support there if they want. People you already know were willing to help fund you. You don't have to be actively "running" it in any sense like you did with KS. You can just leave it there. Basically just post any updates you post here on there as well, I guess.

[teefal]

I think I really suck at communicating today. What I wanted to say is that you need to grab peoples attention, then pitch your game and get people invested in it before you lose that attention again.

lithander, I agree with everything you're saying. The watercolor illos I used in the Kickstarter were done by an illustrator I paid, and the voice over too.  Everything else was me doing my best, which given time constraints wasn't that great.  I've been in the ad agency world my whole life (my dad had an agency on Madison Avenue), but it's a tricky balance pitching a dream project.

I hate our pitch video, but it was the best I could do at the the time.  Here is a better one we did a while back ...





I suppose I know how to do this, I just sucked this time due to lack of focus and money.

[teefal]

You basically just slap the page up and customise at a bit and then just leave it. Link it to those who supported your KS and tell them that they can support there if they want. ust leave it there. Basically just post any updates you post here on there as well, I guess.

I've thought of this. We also have a contribute page on our site which has our own credit card processing.  Today I kind of feel relieved that no one got charged, and now the pressure is off.

Who knows ... failure is usually the prequel to success, or so the business books keep saying.

[teefal]

Anyways, I'll leave my contribution at that, feel like I'm rambling. I'll keep on reading though, maybe you'll have a marketing epiphany.

Thanks Zizka. My current thought is teaching our cats to fold origami while playing the piano, then putting it on YouTube.  Or maybe, "Top ten ways schools are training your kids for ISIS. You won't believe #6."

OR maybe I'll just return to my shell for a few months and forget everyone outside TIGsource.

Today has been great though, everyone.  Just what I needed on a sad day.

[JobLeonard]

@lithander: Well, regardless of whether if feels like a failure to communicate, I think your contributions are actually really provoking the discussion in a good way! :D Good critical debate always involves a bit of.. shall we say, combatitive feedback, whether that was the intent or not.

@teefall: what kind of shell? BASH, Z, FISH?

But don't pull back man, aim for that posttraumatic growth. Failure isn't usually the prequel to success, but it's definitely a requisite. But I don't want this to turn into a smile-or-die talk

Anyway, I think what we're seeing in this discussion is producing a clearer view into what your ambitions really are and what the core thing that makes Tidepool special than the entire period I've been following this devlog.

So the graphics can't be the selling point, we'll agree on that, but if you say the children light up as you hoped they would, that can be a selling point! And that also immediately puts the focus on the right spot: the point of view of the child's creativity.

BTW, I was reminded of the Royal Society of Arts. Wouldn't organisations like that be very nice networks to try to tap into? Or even get grants from? Although aiming for grants can also a kind of "selling out" in my experience.

[teefal]

Thanks JobLeonard.  You're right, the debate did bring  out some core elements that likely haven't been written about.

As for grants, I've been down that road.  I'd Rather Keep it a for profit, even if my ambitions aren't megacash.

And I'm a bash man. Boring but reliable.

[Greipur]

The logo was drawn with friends at the very start of the project, as a single swipe.  I'm not married to it but do like that it arose as a single reflexive gesture.

I meant the font specifically, using stock fonts (for logos) never sits well with me, but then again I'm a snob. No, but if you have to use stock fonts I would advise a more neutral one than Papyrus. Better yet, make a custom one. Regarding the image I understand the single swipe thing but it could've looked more refined imo (for example made with an ink brush), even though I understand that it's supposed to evoke this naivistic thing you're going for.

[JobLeonard]

http://comicneue.com/

Comic Sans without the negative baggage!

[teefal]

Ah Papyrus!  I've had many comments on this choice.  It's not actually part of the logo, just the titling of the trailer & kickstarter.

I was literally packing for my trip to San Francisco when I chose this, which I did simply because it felt most friendly of the choices on my computer at the time.  I usually use more classic fonts.  Didn't realize it had the negative rep that it did (I do know about comic sans, et al).

It will be changed to another that a font designer friend gave me when I do another cut of the trailer.

As for the logo, the original Tidepool logo was this:



I changed it because I later made the logo for Alan Kay's Etoys, and it was too similar.



I should also say that there's a bit of a "cobbler's shoes" thing going on here, as I mentioned earlier.  Case in point, the Tidepool website.  It was originally meant to be a private project website and hasn't really gotten a design yet.

[teefal]

By the way, here's the current Tidepool logo we're talking about.





As I said, I like that it was one-take, no edits.  I did change the color though.  If it seems a "little off" it's because it's supposed to be a first draft ... the whole Miles Davis "there is no wrong note thing" ... the Jack Kerouac "don't make edits" thing.

[JobLeonard]

I changed it because I later made the logo for Alan Kay's Etoys, and it was too similar.

/humblebrag

[teefal]

Ha.  Didn't mean to.  I'm just so used to distinguishing it from the other Etoys ... the failed shopping website with the sock puppet.

Come to think of it, they should have called it Alan Kay's Etoys, like Sid Meier's Civilization.  Would have made my life easier.

[Greipur]

Didn't realize it had the negative rep that it did (I do know about comic sans, et al).

Personally I'm not speaking from the font bandwagon but rather that it's unwise to use themed stock fonts, since they are easy to distinguish and are seldom used professionally. It's not so much the font itself but the usage of a heavily themed stock font, it makes it feel tacky, and not in a playful childlike kind of way.

[io3 creations]

Wow, so much to say.

First, io3 (thanks for your great feedback) .. yes, my target and core message have changed over the month. Given a means to measure people's reactions (retweets, pledges, page views), I've been experimenting.

This phase of my plan has always been about gamers, hence my press focus and trip to GDC. More specifically, gamers who have kids or want to help kids. Most of my experience is with a similar group: techy adults who embraced OLPC's mission. My hope was to engage people most likely to see that teaching kids to make games is a good thing (not quite yet parents and teachers).

At GDC, the one-on-one reactions were very positive, but I had the luxury of altering my pitch as I got to know each person ... he likes that it's a custom game engine, or she likes that it's teaching nonlinear narrative, etc, etc.  Of course pitching Kickstarter or the press doesn't allow this. I have to come up with a unique selling proposition and position myself.

So HOW to say WHAT to WHO?  What are the essential elements, the ah-ha's.  You picked up on several: storytelling, coding, NLP, game world. The marketing hacks focused on "game that makes kids smarter" and how I took my daughter out of school (that's the angle, they told me).  

It's the classic elephant to the blind men situation, so I've been trying different approaches to see what resonated most (it's a snake, no it's a tree trunk). In the end, it feels like an exercise in futility. What phrase to put on the billboard is likely much less important than a kid saying to another, "hey check this out." (which is why I'm retreating again to kids)

For me personally, the truest, most motivational message I've written are the first few lines of the trailer.  "At the start, we're all brilliant", etc.  As many times as I've had this conversation, it always comes back to that, giving children room to grow their minds without the pressure of adult expectation. This is the real reason I took my daughter out of school, not so she could help me make a game.

Anyway, clearly I'm wrong on one of the big three:  wrong audience, wrong message, wrong product.  I couldn't even raise $18k after two months of trying.

Thanks for the detailed explanation.  Your recent Kickstarter approach makes more sense now.  As for how to actually approach it ... that's an uncharted territory and as such chances are that many approaches won't work.  Hopefully, you'll find something that does.

Oh, about the art: I actually like the images and style on the Kickstarter page itself.

[Zizka]

If you want, you can use the font I've created for STX for your game, it'll only cost you 100,000 gil.

It's pixel art though so I don't know if it would work for you:

[JobLeonard]

Hey, this paper sounds like it might help you with designing your natural langage processor:

Studying the Language and Structure in Non-Programmers’ Solutions to Programming Problems

The study even involves children!

[teefal]

Zizka, the font seems see Toaster Guy   I'll give a try, who knows.

JobLeonard, great find.  I'll add it to my "light reading" list.

[JobLeonard]

"light reading"

Harhar (it's still on my "to read" pile as well though)