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[Inane]

With the GBA well on it's way out, it's unlikely a publisher would be interested.

Bah, I say, bah!
I'd buy it.
If we really wanted to we could go the Qwak route, or even just have a ROM for people with flashcarts :D. Regardless, I'd love to see this on my GBA.

[DrDerekDoctors]

Wait, so who is programming this then?

[PoV]

Wait, so who is programming this then?

BMcC, if I read right.

Bah, I say, bah!
I'd buy it.
If we really wanted to we could go the Qwak route, or even just have a ROM for people with flashcarts Cheesy. Regardless, I'd love to see this on my GBA.

More people can play it if it's not.  And there's a few problems with the QUAK cart method, from GBA SP incompatibilities, little profit, lots of leftover stock, etc.

[BMcC]

Wait, so who is programming this then?

read the op kthnx

[BMcC]

PoV:  Yeah, developing with portability in mind is still open at this point, and the tiles are Nintendo Standard^TM 8x8, but I dunno if I wanna go that route, honestly.  I'd like to be able to take advantage of the, er, advantages of the PC, you know?  And I definitely don't want the project to get bogged down with extraneous plans.

That having been said, I'm sure that when it's done, it could be ported well.  It might just take a little more finesse. 

Right now my #1 goal is Make A Great Game.  So... back to coding I go!

Keep posting!  I'll make proper responses soon.  I like what I'm seeing/hearing so far. 

[DrDerekDoctors]

Wait, so who is programming this then?

read the op kthnx

I only have the capacity to remember a maximum of three posts back.

[ravuya]

Hmm. I could probably do any ports that need to be done. Not sure I have time to do real work on it, though.

[PoV]

PoV:  Yeah, developing with portability in mind is still open at this point, and the tiles are Nintendo Standard^TM 8x8, but I dunno if I wanna go that route, honestly.  I'd like to be able to take advantage of the, er, advantages of the PC, you know?  And I definitely don't want the project to get bogged down with extraneous plans.

That having been said, I'm sure that when it's done, it could be ported well.  It might just take a little more finesse. 

Oh I know what you mean.  While I do have a soft spot for the GBA, I'd gladly ditch it for flexibility.  And besides, ports can (and usually) take liberties depending on the platform.  So long as the code stays C or C++, a port to anything else will just be a matter of changing APIs, reorganizing assets, and handling other platform features.

I'm sure we'll come back to porting later.

So here's a fun question.  What graphics API are you planning to use?

[Data]

Been busy with IRL stuff the last few days, so I missed this exciting development. I'm so glad someone's stepping up to implementing one of Niklas' designs! The collab approach by this qualified community gives me hope that something serious will come of it, too.

A detail I thought would be cute is if the guy actually left a trail of pixels when he jumps like depicted here:

The trail could be like 4-5 pixel dots long, and just show up when he jumps. Also, perhaps little pixel puffs could be generated when he slides after changing running direction too. Just a couple of small ideas

BMcC, again, kudos for taking on the task! Please remember that while it is very exciting and fun now in the beginning, it's following through on the long slog that counts. Hopefully with the help and encouragement (and expectations) of everyone here, it'll be easier to reach the finish line.

[Bezzy]

Use this if you like it, if not, I've not spent too long on it, so don't worry about discarding it. This is intended for a lateral jump (rather than an "on the spot" jump), but at a push i could be used for both. 8 frames.




Looks like a tiny jumping chris crawford!

[Dan MacDonald]

haha great! I like it!

[Derek]

Looks like a tiny jumping chris crawford!

:D

This is awesome!  All we need now is:

• a walking animation
• a "pulling myself up" animation
• a ladder climbing animation

...and then I think we're set for the first milestone!  Graphics can always be tweaked later, but these look great.

The music sounds awesome, also!

GO TEAM VENTURE!!!

[BMcC]

Just jumpin' in for some quick responses.  I'll be able to contribute more to the discussion later, but not just yet...

@PoV:  That's for me to know and you to find out. 

@Data:  Oh, I'm going to pay special attention to the puffs, believe me.  They make or break a game.   

And thanks for the kind words!  Don't you worry, all the excitement of making games died in me years ago.  I'm in this for the long haul.  Definitely keep on me, though.  It'll only help keep me focused.

@Bezzy:  Haha, that's nuts!  I like it.

Once I get the core engine done, I'd like to make more detailed plans for the animations.  I can't discuss it right now, but lemme throw this out there -- What does everyone think about more deliberate, physical movement for the character?  For example, instead of "sliding" up the ladders as platform game characters are so often wont to do, what do you think about him (Guy Balding) climbing up rung by rung?  Just a thought.

Alright, back to my notes.  Keep the ideas comin'.

[BMcC]

This is awesome!  All we need now is:

• a walking animation
• a "pulling myself up" animation
• a ladder climbing animation

Yeah, walking, climbing, pulling up from ledges, and also pulling up from the tops of ladders.  Pushing could be useful, too...

[lowpoly]

For example, instead of "sliding" up the ladders as platform game characters are so often wont to do, what do you think about him (Guy Balding) climbing up rung by rung?  Just a thought.

the more little details like this, the better. Take advantage of it being a pc game and go friggin nuts with animation and ridiculous polish. That's the kind of stuff that makes a game memorable

[Bezzy]

Can I put dibs on the "Climb Ledge" one? I'll try doing it in the next couple of days.

# The player can hang onto ledges, because it seems like a plausible ability, however, he can only pull himself up if he's not falling too fast, otherwise he'll lose the grip quickly. The same thing applies to grabbing onto ladders and other things.

I guess it's not for me to say, but I wouldn't do this, personally. The idea that the ability to climb up from a grip state being based on velocity... doesn't sound like it's going to feel "consistent". You're basing it off a discrete variable (velocity) which is less black and white than just a grip state.

I'd propose alternatives: that you can always get a grip, and always climb up from it, regardless of incoming velocity.

Or

You can always climb up from a grip, but if you fall past your jump height - 1 block, you cannot get a grip. That way you can grip same level platforms, but nothing lower.

# The player can jump about a tile high with a little margin. Since he can grab onto ledges, it's possible to climb 2 tiles high, but not 3.

Okay, so, what I'll do is, start with the Character gripping a ledge to his RIGHT, and then "scroll" the tile by (2,2) pixels, for 8 frames. So by the end of the 8 frames, the character has moved (16,16) from the original position, and is therefore directly ontop of the square he was previously clinging on the side of. Is that okay? Is it 16x16 for one square? Or is it 8? [Edit] Looks like 8 from the design doc. Easy enough. I'll just make it 8 steps of (1,1)

I'll make sure it has "speed" in mind so that you're not waiting too long for an animation to finish. However, no matter how fast, you'd always have a window of inactivity there. My tip is that if you re-press jump again while you're still in the middle of animation, you should snap the character to the end position of the animation, and have them start the jump from there - break the animation for the sake of keeping the player in control.

# The player can duck and crawl, and is a tile high while doing so. When pulling up from a ledge or coming up a ladder, he goes into crawl mode first, incase there's roof right above.

Noted!

[Bezzy]

For example, instead of "sliding" up the ladders as platform game characters are so often wont to do, what do you think about him (Guy Balding) climbing up rung by rung?  Just a thought.

the more little details like this, the better. Take advantage of it being a pc game and go friggin nuts with animation and ridiculous polish. That's the kind of stuff that makes a game memorable

My advice is that you have a pretty fast animation for ladder climbing - nothing more annoying than hitting a ladder and waiting for an excruciatingly slow animation - especially when you don't have much choice on a ladder. When this gets animated, I'd recommend Guy takes it about 4 rungs at a time . Keep him speedy.

[BMcC]

For example, instead of "sliding" up the ladders as platform game characters are so often wont to do, what do you think about him (Guy Balding) climbing up rung by rung?  Just a thought.

the more little details like this, the better. Take advantage of it being a pc game and go friggin nuts with animation and ridiculous polish. That's the kind of stuff that makes a game memorable

Oh yeah, that reminds me.  Bezzy pointed out his animation is 8 frames, but really, don't even worry about the frame count.  Computers have got MEGS of memory now, I hear. 

I'd love to see crazy smooth animations if people were up for it.  (BTW, the game's running at 60 FPS.)

I guess it's not for me to say, but I wouldn't do this, personally. The idea that the ability to climb up from a grip state being based on velocity... doesn't sound like it's going to feel "consistent."

Don't worry about that stuff 'til the movement's been ironed out a bit (and everyone's got playable builds).  I'm sure we can get the movement in this game juuustt right.

Okay, so, what I'll do is, start with the Character gripping a ledge to his RIGHT, and then "scroll" the tile by (2,2) pixels, for 8 frames. So by the end of the 8 frames, the character has moved (16,16) from the original position, and is therefore directly ontop of the square he was previously clinging on the side of. Is that okay? Is it 16x16 for one square? Or is it 8?

The tiles are 8x8.  That sounds good, but be forewarned:  As the engine comes together, things may change.  That looks good on paper, though.

I agree, player control should be one of the highest priorities in this game.

# The player can duck and crawl, and is a tile high while doing so. When pulling up from a ledge or coming up a ladder, he goes into crawl mode first, incase there's roof right above.

Noted!

Hold on, I could so easily just detect what's above the ladder...  So I'd say, with the climbing over the top of the ladder animation, make it go into a crouch (which would be like one frame away from standing most likely).  If there's something above, he'll stay crouched, otherwise he'll stand up.

[BMcC]

For example, instead of "sliding" up the ladders as platform game characters are so often wont to do, what do you think about him (Guy Balding) climbing up rung by rung?  Just a thought.

the more little details like this, the better. Take advantage of it being a pc game and go friggin nuts with animation and ridiculous polish. That's the kind of stuff that makes a game memorable

My advice is that you have a pretty fast animation for ladder climbing - nothing more annoying than hitting a ladder and waiting for an excruciatingly slow animation - especially when you don't have much choice on a ladder. When this gets animated, I'd recommend Guy takes it about 4 rungs at a time . Keep him speedy.

Okay, I'm really rushing through responses now.  I've got to go!

But to that I'd say, yeah, I want to keep player control a focus.  But I like the idea of the character having a certain "weight" to his actions.

MORE ON THIS LATER

PEACE OUT  ::runs off::

[Prospero]

Not sure what I can offer besides armchair support - you guys seems to have everything covered already! Amazing how this has taken off in apparently a handful of hours Awesome!